Macabrepedia: A Marriage of True Crime and the Truly Bizarre
Macabrepedia: A Marriage of True Crime and the Truly Bizarre
Devils in the Daycare: Satanic Panic Vol 2
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In this entry, we discuss the McMartin Pre-School case and the rise of ritualistic child abuse accusations of the 1980s and 90s.
Twitter & Facebook: @macabrepedia
Instagram: @macabrepediapod
Email us at: @Macabrepediapod@gmail.com
Ref:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R21tWs-qCw
https://open.spotify.com/episode/2wpJHaSIGEDby9ZipHKhWp?si=f56bb07367164512
https://www.aetv.com/real-crime/mcmartin-preschool
Macabrepedia makes light of dark subject matter and may not be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.
Matthew:Child abuse is a very real horrific and unfortunately common occurrence. abuse in any form is a very serious topic and one discovered should be addressed through appropriate channels. Child abuse is a crime well deserving of punishment. And for those who are convicted of child abuse often find that there is a special kind of treatment for them, even amongst other criminals. The impact on surviving victims is permanent. Even those who make peace with the events still always have that as a defining moment in their lives. Today's entry deals with the accusations of ritualistic physical and sexual abuse in the daycares, and preschools of 1980s and 90s America. Accusations fueled by Miss handling of situations, heavy handed leading questions of children by police and advocacy groups, and the peaking of the Satanic Panic. Understand that this entry focuses on the absurdity of some of these claims and highlights the aspects of the Satanic Panic. What it doesn't aim to do is downplay the severity of child abuse or to encourage people to dismiss a child's claims of abuse. Join us as we add another entry into this our Macabrepedia.
Marissa:Hello, and welcome to Macabrepedia marriage of true crime the truly bizarre as always, we are Your host, Marissa and Matthew. And I definitely sounds like this week is not going to be nearly as fun as last week's on Dungeons and Dragons.
Matthew:Well, depends on how you look at it. So yes, this is this is part of the Satanic Panic series that we're doing. And yes, it does deal with child abuse. The idea though, is that and a bit of a spoiler, there, there was no convictions of child abuse. And the the claims that were made are on believably bizarre to the point that there there is unlikely any level of child abuse that actually happens in this story. Well, that is a relief. Yeah. So just we'll just get that out of the way. Straight up. Now. That doesn't mean that I won't be telling you parts of the stories and the things that have happened there or the claims that some of the children were making. That being said it just in the in the claims that are made. They're just so ridiculous. Yeah, there's just there's no ifs, ands or buts about it, like just throw it out. It's ridiculous, right?
Marissa:I'm pretty unfamiliar with this. So I'm interested to see what you have to say,
Matthew:well, throughout the 80s and 90s, there was a growing Satanic Panic as we kind of talked about, right. So there's this moral panic. And then we already touched on role playing games and how that led into there as well. But in the, throughout the throughout that decade, there was a ton of ritualistic child abuse claims that were happening, some were just on individuals, there were people who were claiming that they were they, they had repressed repressed memories that went through hypnotism, were able to unlock these these hidden suppressed memories of the satanic rituals that they were brought into. Yeah, I've seen people do that. Yeah, where these people were claiming that they were, they had been taken from their school, and were, you know, subjected to watching animals be sacrificed and all these crazy things. There's, there's one girl and we're not going to really cover this. I'm just going to kind of breeze over some of these because we're really actually going to be focusing on a particular case, specifically, but there was there's this Australian girl who was claiming that she had had multiple pregnancies and had to eat her fetuses in front of the ritual during the rituals and all this stuff and just listening to her like you can see and I might link it in, in the show notes. But if you listen to her claims, she clearly does not understand what what it looks like to have a baby. Like there's just there's no there's no way like she just doesn't it just there's the red flags all over the place that there's no it did not happen. There's no damn way. Okay, gotcha. But and also it just doesn't make sense. Like, she had even claimed that she still had like a four year old daughter, who was still being held by these satanic worshippers who were in this like country estate, and that her daughter was still being held there. You can tell if somebody's ever fully carried a baby to turn All right when she can, and she and she was in school at the time, and at the age of like 12 years old when she was was she was saying that when this was happening 12 to 15. You don't think that any of the teachers or anything would have noticed that you were nine months pregnant? That's fulfilled? It's a lot of
Marissa:very unlikely. I mean, you're not saying it's impossible, but very, very likely.
Matthew:Very, very likely. Yeah. It was her grandmother who was a leader of this Cabal. Anyways, case for another day, maybe. What we're actually focusing on today is the McMartin preschool trial. This happened in the early 1980s. It was a preschool in Manhattan Beach, California. And it was kind of a family run business. for Virginia. McMartin was the founder of the preschool and her son or her grandson becomes a becomes the focal point for a lot of these claims. Now, the reason we're focusing particularly on the McMartin preschool trial is one there are other podcasts there that have dedicated entire seasons to other trials along the side. I'm not saying that there's that there's nobody else who's covered in McMartin trials, but there was an uncovered does an amazing job of doing a case in Canada. If you want to listen to a really well done, top notch kind of investigative report on on the subject, you can go check that out uncovered. So let's talk about the McMartin preschool trial. And the reason we're kind of focusing on this one specifically on also is because this was the most expensive trial and the longest trial in US history. Really, wow, it stretched for five years. Oh, fan went into retrial. Yeah. So
Marissa:how much it cost? You said the most expensive Yeah,
Matthew:it was like five or $15 million, or something along those lines. So crazy. Okay. Yeah, it was it was ridiculous that the amount of money that had a ton of specials here. I wasn't, that wasn't a fact that I was really drilling down on. So I don't know if since then, sorry. No, no, I'm just saying I don't know if since then, it's it's then if there's been a more expensive one, but I do not believe that there was a longer one like this will stretch down for a decade. So in 1983 This woman named Judy Johnson has a son who is at the McMartin preschool. Now her son is complaining about having trouble sitting or bowel have painful bowel movements or something along this line. Judy, unfortunate. Yeah. So Judy begins to ask the child questions and kind of like, start to interrogate him about what's what's causing all of this. And she eventually comes to believe that her child and child the children are protected. So I don't know where kids name or anything like that. But But Judy ends up getting a story out of her son, who claims to her belief that he had been sodomized at the school. And he's like two years old. Oh, wow. Yeah. He so she then reports this to the police, the police? Of course, absolutely. The police then bring in investigators to kind of take a look at this. And they find nothing. Nothing that shows that there's any real evidence of this pot for whatever reason? Well, I guess I shouldn't say that knowing where this goes. I say well, for whatever reason. But the police having no evidence as to what's going on with this child as to any kind of level of abuse. They decide. Well, just to be on the safe side. Let's go ahead and send out letters to every parent of all the children at the McMartin preschool and there that's gonna cause
Marissa:a panic a little bit. Yeah,
Matthew:so you see where this is gonna do. So on September 8, eighth 18th or so use a Victorian or so on September 8 1983. The the the police department sent out these letters that basically say, you can read it that's all over that. You can easily get a hold of so I'm not going to read the whole thing too, because it's a little bit long, but I will do some of the highlights. So they sent out this letter that says that there's an investigation involving child molestation And at the McMartin preschool, particularly in regards to Ray Buckley, who's the grandson and slash son of the other some of the other people a young child a two year old. No, no Ray Buckley is one of the IS is the grandson of the owner of the
Marissa:bison adult. Yeah, he's he's one of the teachers they do this without knowing without actually having any evidence zero evidence so they didn't they put
Matthew:his name on this guy. Yeah, they put his name into the letter and say, Ray Buckley is being investigated for child molestation and then they go further on to encourage the parents to interrogate their children about it about inappropriate touching sodomy, fondling, all of this, all of this stuff.
Marissa:That sounds very mishandled in my opinion.
Matthew:And then at the end, of course, they're like, at the very end of the of the last letter, it says, there's no evidence to indicate that the management of Virginia McMartin preschool, had any knowledge of the situation, and no detrimental information concerning the operation of the school has been discovered during this investigation. Also, no other employee in the school is under investigation forever,
Marissa:any criminal act, just this one guy.
Matthew:So it goes hammer in on on Ray, so they sent out this letter, it's like 200 letters go out. So all of a sudden, all these all these parents are asking their kid, hey, what's going on with this? And of course, they're like, Be discreet, don't share this, right. So they so they go, and there's all these parents are talking to their kids about what's going on what's going on? And the kids are like, nothing. What are you talking about? I have no idea. And these are, this is a preschool. So we're only dealing with very young children. So they're trying to get the their kids that to confess or to, you know, feel comfortable enough to let let them know what's going on. None of the kids are saying anything about it. They're just like, I have no idea what you're talking about. Eventually, there is a advocacy group called The Children's Institute International, which is a Los Angeles based advocacy group for child abuse basically. So word spreads after these letters go out about this possible crime. Possible child molestation, understandably so. Yeah. Because parents are going to start talking, I mean, if 200 people in a community suddenly get a letter that their kids might be being molested. So now all of a sudden, they're reaching out to maybe the people who used to have kids there. And other than that, right, so spreads and spreads and spreads. So CI, which is a Children's Institute International, they start doing two plus hour investigations with each of the children. Now, you may be familiar with kind of a joke, where people will hold up a doll and say, show me on the doll where they touched you. Right?
Marissa:What's the joke part,
Matthew:dude? Like? Yeah, no, I've seen it. I'm just saying like, it's not like it. There's not like a punchline to the joke, but okay, yeah, it's often used in like, that will show me where the bet you know, when I show me where the Batman touched you comes from this, okay, it is no longer something that can be used because see I what they were basically doing. They sit the kids down for two plus hours of interrogations, like if you've ever seen, like suspects being interrogated for a crime, it's kind of like that, except they're doing it with these, these anatomically correct dolls. So they give them these dolls. And they're asking the kids, you know, tell me about the games you play at the school. And the kids are like, they tell them about the different games they play and what they do. And they're like, Well, is there any games that you play where you have to be naked? And the kids are like, What? No, yeah. So then they're like, Well, little Timmy. And little Jane. They told me that they play naked games. You don't play naked games? And the kids like No, no, like, Well, why wouldn't you be included in those games? Have you ever heard that there? Were these other games? Why wouldn't they include you? So there? And then the kids like, oh, I don't? And then eventually the kids like, oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, I've played that game. Because now you're making the kid feel like there. Yeah. And it's like all these other kids were leading. Exactly. So this is where this is kind of and they they video all of these interviews as well. So these kids are shown with these dolls, they have the dolls or they play with the dolls and, and they're being asked these leading questions. And sometimes they'll have the dolls and they'll the kids will have the dolls, and they'll put them on like the couch or a chair or something. And sometimes they'll put the two dolls together, like one in each hand, put them together and then set them down so that the dolls are touching each other. Interviewers like well, that shows that they're like I already said that the dog doll was Ray effectively and the other day All was a student. So the fact that they put the two dogs together that shows that they're laying together. So they're reading into all this stuff. So this starts to spiral and just go nuts, right? So they keep, they keep doing these weird interviewing techniques where they're leading and leading and leading and leading. And, of course, the interviewers are taking bits that are true from a student that says, Oh, this is what happened. And then they take that, and they, they use that to get a confession out of another child, and so on and so forth. So one of them might have said, and there was there was a game that they that they had said, where it was called Naked movie star. I don't know the details of the game, but it was a game where basically, the kids would pose nude for photographs. That's what that's what, that's what the the narrative is being built on. That that's what's happening. So then,
Marissa:I mean, obviously, anything like that you really have to take seriously, but it definitely sounds like they are going crazy with it.
Matthew:Right? Yeah, absolutely. If you hear one of these claims, yeah, that's fine. But if you are trying to get someone to, to confess, to having pictures taken of them, yeah. And they're telling you they never had the pictures taken. And eventually they're like, Okay, yeah, I guess maybe they might have, then all of a sudden, you're like, boom, got it? No, that's not how that's supposed to be handled. Right. So again, I'm not saying like, don't like you should go into it with some pretty with a pretty serious always assume that they're, I mean, at the risk of making it seem. I understand. Innocent until proven guilty. But in a claim that's that serious, like go into it assuming that the person is not lying. Right? And go into it to be like, is there something here for sure, get that? Absolutely. But if you're the person who's telling you telling this other person that they were molested, and the person selling, you know, I wasn't, then back off, you know, they weren't. So this this actually even this escalates to the point where the students are eventually saying that there's underground tunnels, underneath
Marissa:the ESA, with underground tunnels with these stories? I
Matthew:don't know. I'm curious to know. Well, the one in Michigan for the DND one. Yeah, that actually, they did have underground tunnels. The preschool did not have underground tunnels. There were no tunnels under the preschool. And this was later found out by archaeologists who were brought in. And because other people were just digging around, oh, no citizens were just taking equipment to the location of the school and digging holes to try to find stuff. And then an archeology team came in and started actually like doing an investigation. They're in there pulling up like pieces of debris that are from previous decades and eras. So then this, this narrative begins to build where it's like, well, they they were tunnels down there. And then what happened was, Nick Martin is found out that the kids were telling people about the tunnels. So they filled them all in buildings there. It was, like a garbage dump underneath there. So anyway, so in the kids are saying that the way to get into these tunnels because they can't find any in the entrance, is that the kids would be flushed down the toilet. And or, and I'm like, What
Marissa:is a red flag for you?
Matthew:Yeah, I was like, I was like, this is the same year that Mario came out, I think, and I'm like, is this what they're doing is like, but anyway, there's no link to that. But this is. So the kids are being flushed down the toilet to get into these underground tunnels, the underground tunnels lead to hot air balloons, and private airplanes come on that then the kids would get on fly to Mexico, where they would have celebrity, ritualistic satanic meetings. And the reason that they get this scene where they know they're Chuck Norris, Oh, no. Chuck Norris, because the students are provided with pictures of the different people. Well, who are the people who did this to you? And they're pulling they have, they're pointing out Chuck Norris as a person who was there. There in one of the police who was in the investigation was beat was pointed as as one of the one of the people who was buying this. So instead of just being like, well, this is ridiculous, because clearly, Chuck Norris and Detective are not the people who are doing this right. Like clearly that should that is not the issue. No, instead they're like, well, the police are involved too. This is a big police cover up. And it's like
Marissa:and there are tunnels under the school to take these kids to private planes and fly to Mexico. Chuck Norris does this not just I mean, this just reeks of like a very young child's imagination or a dream or something like this does not make any logical sense.
Matthew:So that is one of the things and you'll see this not in our episode per se, but like if you ever listen Under people when they're trying to defend this kind of like accusation coming from a child, it's like a child couldn't make this up. child couldn't make this up. And I'm like, what part of child like imagination? Do you not understand some
Marissa:things? Sure. They couldn't like if it's a more mature subject, and they've been exposed to absolutely, but this is them, going into tunnels and getting on planes and flying to meet Chuck Norris, who's one of the biggest celebrities of the day. No, that child can make
Matthew:that and so, so this also so during this time, Judy Johnson, it turns out, they're trying to get her to go the in the case, I know this is kind of all over the place. This is this. It's a wackadoodle story. But anyways, Ray is in and seven other teachers have been brought in and accusations have been brought against them, including like the 6070 or 67 year old Virginia who's like this, like super nice old lady. So much in fact that the child, Judy Johnson, who started this whole thing, her child was not actually registered at the school properly. Judy just dropped her two year old off at the school one day, and Virginia being the grandmotherly person that she is didn't have her go through all of the paperwork. Now. You'll hear this presented as like, almost as if like Judy dropped him off in the parking lot and drove away. I don't think that's what it was. I think that Judy just didn't understand that you have to like register to do her due diligence. Yes, she rolled up in there and was like, Hey, I have to go to work. You need to watch my kid. This is a daycare, right? Yeah, I think that's more of the I'm giving Judy the benefit of the doubt on this. Because I don't she don't I don't think she just like left the child wandering in the playground. And then they were like, Oh, we have one more extra kid. And then never asked anything about it later. So anyway, so she didn't actually properly register this kid. So that's, that's kind of a weird thing. Like, Judy doesn't know how to do that. Okay, Judy, also is a is from most sources, a ridiculous alcoholic and possible schizophrenic. She had also made claims that her ex husband had been sought amaizing her child, wow. Right. So the CII brings in their medical experts, and the medical experts are doing examinations of these kids, including taking pictures of their genitals and all this stuff to prove that there was scarring that could possibly be associated with with molestation.
Marissa:I mean, if they haven't been if they haven't had this happen to them before you don't think this is gonna traumatize them
Matthew:right? That's what I'm saying. I'm like so you're you're upset because somebody is took pictures of them naked and now you're naked? Exactly. are taking the celebrity the the movie star naked movie star game? And then there? And then what are you doing? The Naked movie start? Yeah, yeah. What are you What? How does this make sense to you guys. So anyways, the the reason it becomes like a Satanic Panic is is Judy Johnson is also saying that hurt that her son said that Ray could fly and had taken a drill, and was drilling holes into their armpits and like to get blood out of them. And that he was ritualistically sacrificing animals, including killing a horse with a baseball bat in front of in front of the students, and all this stuff. So Judy is almost certainly a schizophrenic before that Judy can ever get brought to trial to go on there and actually, you know, make a statement. She ends up drinking herself to death. So there's that. And clearly just a sign of somebody who needed way more mental health. Help than then she was obviously receiving. And unfortunately, she had a very young child caught up in Yeah, it has to it has to deal with stuff like that. Like, yeah, I have I have a schizophrenic or manic depressive, somewhat schizophrenic grandmother. And I kind of understand like, when they go, they get a little wacky sometimes and you just have to, you know, there's you don't know what's real and not particularly at that age. I remember certain math. That's probably a story for another day, maybe, but Well, no, I'll share it. My My grandmother used to sit out at her windows at her house when she was babysitting me. And she would and I was like five, six years old. And she's looking out into other people's houses. And she's like, I don't know who that person is. I bet that person probably killed everybody in the house and she would say stuff like this to me. And I'm like,
Marissa:You were quite young and like,
Matthew:what like, what do we Do you know she come home? But what's funny is I remembered I remember this perfectly well. She's looking into the neighbor's house and there's a there's a guy in the house. He's a bald dude, not wearing a shirt, standing in the kitchen, looking like he's doing dishes or making a sandwich or something. And I'm sitting there and she's like, I don't know who that is. I bet he broke in there. I bet he heard all those people. And I'm like, Who breaks into a house and makes a sandwich with the shirt off? Like, what are you talking? I'm like six years old, like, What are you talking about? I tell my mom, whatever. And then nothing really comes of it. I'm not 100% positive that nobody was murdered in that house. But anyways, I digress. So yeah, being around people who have mental health issues, severe mental health issues. As a child, like what do you do like this is an adult who's supposed to know what they're doing. But again, even the child's So Young at this point, he doesn't even really know how you grew up with it, you get used to it. Yeah, he might not he might not even have known that his mom was all doing this behind behind his back, you know, but anyway, she dies before she can ever take the stand. The one of the big things that they were trying to utilize to get re convicted on this is his obsession with pyramids. Apparently, Ray would sometimes drive around Los Angeles with a pyramid hat. And when I say a pyramid hat, I'm not talking like it's like a baseball cap. But whether it's a pyramid, like I'm talking like, like a wire pyramid, like aluminum foil style, kind of hat on. And he would go to like pyramid conventions. And even a woman who had testified against him, initially said that she had met him at a pyramid convention, and that she couldn't seduce him. And the reason that they were saying that, and he's a pretty good looking guy, pretty fit guy and everything. They were trying to utilize that to be like, This is a beautiful woman, and she couldn't seduce Ray, which means that he must be a sexual deviant. And he works. And he's obsessed with pyramids as well. So he must be a child molester. These are the kinds of this is the kind of avenue that they were used using for this. She eventually recanted that and said that she did actually seduce him and they did sleep together. But okay, here nor there, but this is their kind of trying to make him seem like he's some kind of weirdo. Right?
Marissa:Yeah, I mean, people don't understand stuff like that. I guess they are trying to use that against him. Sure.
Matthew:And it is a little weird to drive around with. Yes, but are they each their own? The. So Ray, Ray's lawyers would say like, he was like, the most courageous person that they'd ever defended. Like, he just was like, I don't have anything to worry about, because I didn't do anything, right. So he just he just kind of always held that as like, the truth will, will come out. And he, he got the end of the first like five year trial, he ends up getting off because the jury can't come to a to a conclusion. So it's a hung jury. He gets retried later. Still nothing. But this is ruining his life. Like I mean, even if you get acquitted and found not guilty. It doesn't matter. Like if you if you polled people in that era, about this case, 83% of them are like, oh, yeah, absolutely. He did it. Like he absolutely was molesting these kids. Now, I feel like the reason that this was drawn out for so long is so see, I was the lead with the interviewing of the children. And I think that they were able to kind of, I think that you can, you can kind of pull back all of the people are flying in and flying in and, you know, the the ritualistic portions of it and getting flushed down toilets and armpits. Yeah. So that you can you pull that back and you still feel like, is there something there? Like, what where are they getting some of this though, you know, and I must come from somewhere, right? And I kind of I back that, you know, like, you should, you should be like, Okay, this is a word. I'm talking to a three year old. This is This is tough to get the full story.
Marissa:You should take it seriously. Absolutely.
Matthew:So but I feel like that's what kind of prolonged this thing was like there has to be something. But there were hundreds, hundreds of hours of videoed interviews with these kids. And they only actually were able to bring a handful like less than I think it was like I think it was like six or eight that they actually brought to trial because all the other ones were so nuts that they that that the prosecution was like, no, like, there's no way we can bring this to court, right. So they kind of weeded it out. And actually the lead person who was it In charge of CIA is a woman named ki MacFarlane when it went to retrial so Oh, she was out. During the initial trial, she was on the stand for five weeks. Wow. Yeah. Going out stuff. Yeah. But the way that she presented this, the information was so bizarre and the stuff that she was believing was happening. It seems like she was pretty bought into the whole satanic ritualistic practices part that when it re trialed, the defense tried to get her to take the stance. Just got to be anyway, so Ray ends up he gets he ends up getting off without any issue. He, there were some there was a little bit of jail time because of like bales and stuff like that, I believe. But he, but he ends up disappearing after this. There's a couple of interviews where he's on like Larry King Live and stuff like that. And he, you know, tells his story and whatever, but it's just it's so bizarre like and during this time. Like you you hear these things about these ritualistic satanic practices. And again, this the McMartin case is, is not unique in all and most most of the claims are just not not unique, like they're a lot of this stuff is, is you can see this in some of the other cases that you can find with that. And then you have these other people who have these repressed these repressed dreams or repressed memories, and everything are coming forward at this time about these ritualistic things. And they're eating up all of this time on like talk shows at the time. So I remember as a as a kid, around this time, early 90s, late 80s, seeing things like Sally, Jessy Raphael, and Geraldo Rivera. So Geraldo, he had a two hour show, on Satanism in 1988. He's blaming metal music and all this stuff. And we'll kind of get into that in the next episode. But he's calling he's calling for Satanism warnings to be on the labels. And this is also kind of the time where we have that little black and white little Parental discretion label. That's all Oh, is that that's where this is where this all kind of started. But we'll touch on that in the next episode. But when you hear these people like, like the girl in Australia and stuff, and again, I'm not saying she didn't go through some kind of trauma. I'm not saying she wasn't abused in some fashion. Absolutely not. Because I don't know. But the story she's telling is not true. No way was she were she part of a satanic cult that was eating her aborted fetuses. It not happening. But as a kid at roughly the same age, about 1012 years old during this time, in the early 90s. Like I remember seeing these, these shows that were talking about ritualistic child abuse when because I used to watch talk shows because I was a weird little kid. But like, it's the stories that they're telling are all fairly similar about the ritualistic sexual stuff that's happening in these these things. And, and, and I remember either seeing at the time or read a rerun of it, but like Anton LaVey, who and his daughter were on a talk shows at the time, and he was he's the person who started the founded the church of Satan, and the religion of Satanism and Satanism and LaVeyan. Satanism. Yeah. And there is a difference between like the Church of Satan and the satanic church, and they're kind of different belief structures, but, and Anton is a really cool character. He's definitely a character in and of himself. But like, these were the things that were constantly in the media, and you're just getting pumped full of all this, all this, this, this Satan is around every corner, kind of
Marissa:Yeah, and we've talked about this before, there are like little clusters of these events that happen all throughout history. I mean, even something more extreme, like school shootings are a thing right now, which is horrible. But it's something that's happened in the past with like mass murder, AX murders and stuff. There's just these clusters of events, because people see it, and they copy it. So that kind of sounds similar to what's happening.
Matthew:Not only that, but it's what the media gloms onto Yeah, right. So when they're, when they're grabbing a hold of this, and they're presenting that and then if that starts to pick up traction, that other outlets start to pick up stories on that too. So it it becomes particularly in the 80s and 90s. I'm in Well, actually it's probably worse now but in the 80s and 90s the news and talk shows and and stuff like that That was where you're getting, you're getting fed all of this information all the time. So it's about it's, it's the click Beatty stuff, right? It's the stuff that gets you to watch, right. So they try to go for outrageous, they try to get the stuff that that they think that the popular population is talking about. So that's what perpetuates a moral panic when that happens. So like now we have our algorithms where your algorithm on your phone might be different than mine, because I look at different articles. But the net, the narrative that's being fed to you is based upon your interests. And that's kind of or whatever you happen to talk about today. Right. And that's kind of what's happening with with the media of this time period, is like Satanism becomes gate catches, catches enough headlines, that all of a sudden, all the headlines are looking for more stories that go into this, and it just blooms into this crazy epidemic of ritualistic like things like, but also during this time, then this isn't something that you really fit into other another story, I'm not gonna do an entire story on this kind of thing. But during the Satanic Panic, even like Procter and Gamble, the company that basically owns everything that you've ever cleaned your house or your body with, like, tide bounce downy for breeze, and that's just the US products, I'm sure there's other ones and other other places. They had to change their logo during this time period, because their logo at the time was a crescent shaped face of a man like like It looks like a like a moon with with a face on it. Right. And he has like a beard that kind of is the the chin part of this of the moon. And then he has like a hat. That kind of sounds familiar. And then you know what that looks like? There's a couple of stars that are in there. Yeah. And that was the Procter and Gamble logo for over 100 years. And then somebody gets a hold of it. And says that they actually located that that image and where actually originates from is from an Egyptian spell book of curses. And then you may remember
Marissa:that they have the spellbook did they pointed out? It was
Matthew:it was so it kind of got lost in in everything at that point. It was some like, it was it was it was a Christian. I don't remember I don't remember exactly who it was, had done it. I don't think I have it in my notes here. But there was some it was it was like this. It was something pretty small. This guy found it this logo and says that it was part of that was part of the suggestion curse book. But that's not really what makes it catch fire. What ends up happening is if you remember, on another talk show host, Phil Donahue. He had, according to the story, he had the the head of Procter and Gamble on his show, where he stated that they had that Procter and Gamble actually was proud of how they funded satanic cults, that they were an active member of, say, the Satanism movement, and that they were actually promoting this. And that aired in 1982, or maybe 85, or possibly 89. It never aired because it didn't actually happen. Doesn't sound like something that people believe that the head of Procter and Gamble was on Phil Donahue and said that they are a satanic company to the point that Procter and Gamble is now P and G. Like their emblem is just a p and A G. And it used to have like a little bit of a crescent still on the side of the G. Got rid of that. Yeah, there's so they got
Marissa:so it's now just full on corporate boring.
Matthew:Yeah, because they can't because they got absolutely blasted for this, this fake story. And that's kind of what happens with this. Like, once the story gets out, and people begin to twist the narrative into being that there's, there's Mario style tunnels that you get that you were dropping into. Airports through it's the same thing you know, it just it's the it's the story that that people want to believe is what people build off of. But anyways, that will kind of do it for the MC Martin and the McMartin preschool and Ray Buckley story. It's just it's just kind of a wild thing. I guess I could have presented it in a little more concise way, but it's just it's so batty and weird and just just nuts as far as the stuff that was happening
Marissa:these days. Wild Times, wild
Matthew:times. But yeah, I mean, this this was eventually reviewed by a by by specialists that were like the interviewing process is just absolutely garbage for these kids. And now, you're not allowed to do any of those tactics to get any information out of out of children, because it's it was absolutely the heaviest handed leading of questions that you could possibly do. They really shamed the children into these confessions. They, they, they,
Marissa:they probably traumatized them.
Matthew:Oh, yeah. And there's even like, later, those who did come forward with this, like yours, like 30 years later, they said that they, they're not sure if they were actually if anything actually happened to them. Because Because because of how, just like trauma traumatic the whole experience, was it? I mean, it got jumbled up in their mind. Yeah, they don't, they can't remember what was real and what wasn't at that point. And, yeah, so the, I mean, if you, the interviewers would praise the story that they wanted to get out of the child. So they'd be like, Oh, wow, really? Tell me more, you know, and the kids like, oh, yeah, this is great. Um, you know, whatever. And not only that, like, a four year old and a two and a half hour interview is going to tell you, whatever you want to know, to get out of that interview, like, can I just go home, right? So it's, it's wild. And I'm just trying to the reason I didn't really drill down on a lot of like, the, the day by day, like set by set is because I'm just trying to get a feel for the wildness of the Satanic Panic. Not specifically, like,
Marissa:we don't need detailed trials.
Matthew:So yeah, if any of you guys have any stories of this time period, and kind of remember, exposure to these types of stories, make sure you share it with us. Absolutely. I would love to hear those. Always excited to hear what other people's experiences were in the whole Satanic Panic era. And we got quite a bit of feedback from listeners as to sharing their Satanic Panic related stories. Particularly around we have we have a lot of a lot of tabletop role playing. Yes. People who listened. So there's a lot of lot of d&d related stories that were shared. Hopefully, hopefully, none of our listeners had to go through the the ritualistic abuse scandals of this era. So maybe, maybe we won't get that much feedback on on sharing of stories from from that era, I guess. d&d. Yeah, you can share whatever stories you want, but I think people will probably be a little bit more open to sharing their stories with the the d&d stuff, but anyways, I apologize if this you know, seems a little bit kind of bouncing all over the place. If you may have noticed there was a lapse in our, our scheduling, as we did not put it out an episode last week. Partially it due to, you know, electrical fires and whatnot, that happened in the house fun times, but also because I, you know, I do have my bipolar issues. And sometimes I'm going through a depressed moment and I can't make myself do anything. And then sometimes coming out of that, I am in a kind of a manic state and it makes it so that it's hard for me to you know, keep my mouth at the same speed as my brain. So that's kind of what may have been coming across in this episode. But anyways, it's what we'll get through it. It's been been plenty of years where I've been dealing with it. But anyways, moving on to our Well, it's actually turning into Marisa McCobb minute while you've
Marissa:been doing the episode later. Yeah. So I will do them carpeted if that's the case. Yeah. Um, versus McCobb minute. So in 1976, while at Pike amusement park in Long Beach, California, a stagehand for a show that was planning to film there, the $6 million man, sprucing up the area to prepare for an upcoming scene. The scene was to take place on a haunted amusement park ride with a tunnel full of ghosts, demons and skeletons. Have you heard the story?
Matthew:No, I just don't know the $6 million man.
Marissa:I know. You know, there's no, I'm asking if you knew this, but you probably do once I say. The stagehand saw a mannequin hanging from a noose in the corner of the room and he went over to move it. When he grabbed it and the mannequins hand came right off. When the stagehand looked down at it, he noticed what appeared to be bone beneath the layers of skin skin. Police were called and the mummified corpse was taken to the Los Angeles coroner's office. The body was covered in layers of wax and paint. And the original incisions from the bodies autopsy and embalming were still visible. The It was identified as Elmer McCurdy, an outlaw who had died 65 years earlier. When I figured it was gonna be Yeah, in 1911. He had been killed in a police shootout after robbing a train his body taken to a funeral home but never claimed by relatives seeing an opportunity, The Undertaker and bombed the body and let people see it if they put a nickel in his mouth. And of course, he made he made a nickel every time that happened. This made him a good bit of money. And five years later, a man who owned a carnival claimed to be his relative and claimed the body saying that he was going to put it to rest.
Matthew:How convenient that he also has a carnival. Yeah,
Marissa:he he was not and he did not. Instead, he made it the star attraction of his traveling carnival. For 60 years. McCarty's body made it this way around various haunted houses, wax museums, and carnivals, and eventually made its way as a prop on an amusement ride at Park pike amusement park, though nobody knows how it finally ended up there. His body was finally put to rest. And his gravestone has not his not only his death here, but also was burial year with no explanation for the 65 year gap written on it. Actually, it says Elmer McCurdy shot by Sheriff's Posse in Osage hills. On October 7 1911, returned to Guthrie, Oklahoma, from Los Angeles County, California for burial. April 20/22 1977. That's all it says.
Matthew:That's awesome. Yeah.
Marissa:So that's our my comment. I thought that was pretty interesting.
Matthew:Well, that's what McCobb minutes are all about? Yes, it is being being little bite size. Interesting little things. Yeah. Sorry. I stumbled over that a bit. But I, we appreciate you joining us as always, and just kind of getting some information as to what the decades of the 80s and 90s were like with in regards to the moral and Satanic Panic. We will continue this series a little bit more going into the next episode, where we tackle backmasking backmasking. Yeah, that's when you play a record backwards, and it tells you to go out here hail satan. But anyways, well, that is next week. But thank you, as always for listening. And a big shout out to our newest patron. I guess I know him as as magic. But that also makes it so that we have multiple magics it is our and our patrons. But Jonathan Seabolt really big shout out to you have been a friend for a long time. And yeah, and also he has a number of creative endeavors, as well. And he's been YouTubing for like seven, eight years now. I've known him since kindergarten. But he wasn't YouTubing
Marissa:for YouTube wasn't around.
Matthew:But he still he was always a great event. Anyways, this is not a show about him. Thank you, magic for the support and supporting us in our creative endeavors. And for the for and all of our patrons, of course, thank you so much for showing your support for what we do here. And for listeners, of course thank you. Also, if you want to reach out to us, you can do so on Twitter and Facebook at Macabrepedia.
Marissa:We are also on Instagram and Macabrepediapod and you can shoot us an email at macabrepediapod@gmail.com.
Matthew:Thank you as always for listening and join us next week as we add another entry into this our Macabrepedia