"Lizzie Borden took an axe...." So begins the children's rhyme about two brutal murders that shook New England. Who was Lizzie Borden? Why did she kill her father and step-mother? Let's find out!
Twitter & Facebook: @macabrepedia
Instagram: @macabrepediapod
Email us at: macabrepediapod@gmail.com
https://www.buzzsprout.com/?referrer_id=1800
"Lizzie Borden took an axe...." So begins the children's rhyme about two brutal murders that shook New England. Who was Lizzie Borden? Why did she kill her father and step-mother? Let's find out!
Twitter & Facebook: @macabrepedia
Instagram: @macabrepediapod
Email us at: macabrepediapod@gmail.com
https://www.buzzsprout.com/?referrer_id=1800
macabrepedia deals with dark subject matter and may not be suitable for all audiences listener discretion is advised.
Marissa:On August 4 1890, to two people were murdered in a house in Fall River, Massachusetts. A man Andrew and his wife Abby were later found that day with multiple X wounds on their bodies. Abby had been making the bed in one of the guest rooms of their house when she had turned around and been murdered. Wounds showing that she had initially been facing the killer before falling and being hit in the back of her head. Her husband came home and lay down for a nap on the couch. Unaware that his wife they murdered upstairs while he was sleeping. He was murdered as well hacked to death with a hatchet. Before long the younger daughter would be arrested and tried for the murders. Children have sang about the event on aware of the gruesomeness disguised behind a singsong rhyme Lizzie Borden took an axe and gave her mother 40 wax when she saw what she had done she gave her father 41 Andrew board and now is dead. Lizzy hit him on the head up in heaven he will sing on the gallows she will swing Join us as we add another entry into this our macabrepedia.
Matthew:Hello and welcome to macabrepedia a marriage of true crime and the truly bizarre today we will have a story of true crime.
Marissa:Indeed we will and that true crime is Lizzie Borden
Matthew:as as the cold open would would lead us. Yes, we are
Marissa:on track today. This is not just kind of related. This is genuinely what we're talking about July 19 1860, a little girl named Lizzie Andrew Borden was born. Her parents are Sarah and Andrew and she had an older sister who was named Emma. Andrew actually made and sold caskets before eventually finding success as a property developer. He owned and operated several textile mills and he became he was very influential. He became president of the Union Savings Bank, and director of the Durfee safe deposit and Trust Company, he did so well that his estate was valued at$300,000 at the time of his death, that was money then now that translates to nine to $9 million.
Matthew:That's a good little chunk.
Marissa:It's a good bet. But the wealthy, as we know, sometimes stay wealthy because they're very careful with their money. And Andrew was more frugal with his cash than a lot of people in his socio economic class. And they did not really live in the wealthiest area of the city. They were not in the poor slum part of the city, but they weren't in the most bougie place more noteworthy though they did not have indoor plumbing, which was at the time common for wealthy people to have in their house. So that's notable was something I guess he just skipped on.
Matthew:Just just set in the old ways. Yeah. Go into the outhouse is good enough for me and my my dad, my grandfather, your great grandpa is good enough for you.
Marissa:Yeah, I mean, just because they could afford it doesn't mean they're not going to use a coupon. So Lizzie and her sister Emma had a fairly religious upbringing. They were active in their church. She Lizzie even taught Sunday school to recent immigrants to the US. Lizzie's mother Sarah and did not make it very long. She actually died in March of 1863. And Lizzy was not quite three years old at this time. And Lizzie so she has no memories of her biological mother quite sad. Three years later, after Sarah Borden dies Andrew Borden remarries, and this time it's to a woman named Abby Durfee Gray, who becomes of course, Abby Borden. It's fair to say that Abby did not have a great relationship with her new stepdaughters. Lizzie actually called her stepmother, Mrs. Borden, and would not answer when she was asked if they had a good relationship.
Matthew:You don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all. Exactly.
Marissa:She believed that Abby had married Lizzie's father for his wealth. And Lizzie and her sister would not eat dinner with their parents. Most nights, they intentionally stayed away. And so this was Lizzie and Emma's life. Neither one of them got married, they spent their time doing church things they would teach immigrants Sunday School serve on various boards related to their church. This was the late 19th century. So by this time, they were in their 30s. And they were considered quote, old mates, which is, you know, the term of the times if you make it past your 20s you're an old maid, sometimes in your 20s without being married. Yeah, just means it's your on the shelf. At that point, you haven't gotten married, so you become an old man. They both lived at home and their lives closely involved their dad and their stepmother, even though they didn't seem to get along very well. But they were all there in the same house together all this time, right? They have a lot of one event that's very important here is that they actually have a lot of pigeons in their barn who started roosting there and Lizzie actually built them a roost if you're going to do that you probably like having these pigeons around. Their father though they did not like it. The father thought that the pigeons were attracting local children who had come to hunt them and he was not okay with that. Andrew Borden took a hatchet you He went out to the barn and he killed all of the pigeons,
Matthew:because they was worried that they were going to be hunted.
Marissa:He didn't like let the children being
Matthew:a shit person. Yeah, I
Marissa:agree with that. He just went out and hacked these pigeons to death. And as I said, Lizzie had built this thing for them. I'm sure it upset her a great deal. Makes sense. If she cared enough about the pigeons to build on this roof, she would be very upset of her father killed them all, especially in such a brutal way. So this is the problem. This is actually the year that this event takes place, but it is a few months prior. So this is very relevant. Two months after the pigeon incident, the two sisters decided to take a vacation from the rest of the family. There may have been a big argument here that led to this. There was a lot of tension within the family because their father had been gifting various properties to Abby, his wife's family. He gave a house to Abby sister which really upset the sisters and they decided to demand something for themselves. And he did in fact give them a house which they used as a rental property. This is the same house that they actually grew up in until Sarah their mother died. So they now have this house. So they went on this vacation. Presumably they had a really good time. And then when they did return from their vacation, Lizzy was still upset. And she decided to stay at a local boarding room for four days before she returned to the family home. She's like I'm really not ready to go back. When she did eventually get back to the house though. Slowly. She was there very briefly before the girl's uncle. His name is John Veronica Morse. He came to stay also with them. He arrived on August 3, he was there to discuss business matters, which was probably not the best move on Andrew Gordon's part because as I said there was already a lot of static over him giving away real estate. And it kind of seemed like he was going to do more of that to the sisters. This was actually the girls uncle, no relation to Andrew Borden. It had been Sarah's brother, so their biological mother's brother, it was just not a good add in. They were already in a volatile situation that probably shouldn't have brought him in to discuss more of giving away stuff or business matters. It might have actually made this worse. And now we're heading into the famous murders. At this point. The family has also been ill this last these last few days. They all feel really bad they're getting over the sickness. There might have been some bad mutton as one possible reason that was used over several days for meals and it was not refrigerated. So people ate it and they got sick. Although Lizzie's stepmother Abby actually feared that it was poison because Andrew he's really not a popular guy. So she always fears getting poisoned. So they're
Matthew:growing up in a household where their stepmother is paranoid that someone's trying to kill them. Yes.
Marissa:August 3. John Moores came to stay. They discussed business matters could have made it worse. Everyone in the household has been feeling bad already. John stays the night the next morning is August 4. This is the day of the murders. Everyone gets up that morning. They get ready they go down for breakfast. at the breakfast table we have Lizzie. She has finally decided to eat with her parents today. We have Andrew Abbey the stepmother we have Lizzy we have the uncle John Morse and we have a live in maid Her name is Bridget Maggie Sullivan. They eat breakfast, probably not mutton, and then Andrew and John. They go to the parlor and they talk shop. They're there for like an hour or so. And then John leaves to go visit his niece who lives nearby and to buy a pair of
oxen. He leaves at around 8:48am Planning to be back for lunch at noon. So Andrew left shortly after that around 9am for his morning walk something that he did most days. So this means that the guys are gone. Now we have just the sisters. We just have Lizzy because actually Emma's gone. We have Lizzie Abby, and made Maggie now in the house. For some reason. Abby went up to make the bed in the guest room or John Morris had stayed. It was normally actually a chore left to Lizzie and Emma but she woke up she went up there this day, somewhere
between nine and 10:30am. This is where she was attacked. Addy was initially facing her attacker. So she probably turned around when she heard somebody come into the room and the first hatchet strike landed on the side of her head above her ear. This caused her to fall and from this she got contusions on her forehead and her nose. And then at this the attacker continued to strike her with the hatchet, hitting her 17 more times to the back of her head killing her. Andrew Borden returned from his
walk around 10:30am At this point, oddly his key did not open the door so he knocked to get in. Everybody was kind of frustrated this the maid Maggie Sullivan answered she said that she was actually cursing when she tried to get it open. The door was jammed. So she did eventually get it open and later she would say that she heard Lizzy laughing upstairs as she went to answer the door. Abby was certainly dead at this point. So it's important that Maggie said she heard Lizzy laughing at the top of the stairs from where the laughter was coming from the body of Abby would have easily been seen from upstairs. Lizzie, of course later denied this saying that her father had asked her about where Abby was and Lizzie had told him that she believed Abby had left to visit a sick friend because she'd gotten a mess. From a messenger.
Matthew:Oh, that no, I was I was with you Lizzie till then. But no, I can alibis for people that are actually gone. Don't look good.
Marissa:She contradicts herself a lot here. Also, Lizzie later said that she'd helped her father take off his boots and lay down for a nap in the sitting room when he got back. But this was later contradicted in photos because if you look at the crime scene photos were in his boots. Yeah, Andrew Borden is wearing his boots. She then told the maid Maggie Sullivan, she said that there's a department store sale nearby. You can go if you want to. She gave her permission to go. Mackey didn't feel great though. So she went and she laid down for a nap. Maggie had also been sick with the sickness and it was a hot day. Sullivan testified that around 11:10am she was laying in bed in her room when she heard Lizzie call from downstairs. Maggie Come quick father's dead somebody came in and killed him. So Maggie raised downstairs and she saw Lizzie who told her to go across the street and get the doctor when they returned Maggie with the doctor. They saw Andrew Gordon's body laying on the couch bloody and slumped over when it was inspected, one of his eyes had been split into suggesting that he had been asleep when he'd been attacked. I mean, I guess if you're gonna go, I think it went through his eyelid. Also, he had been hit 10 Maybe 11 times with a hatchet like well, weapon, and his wounds were still bleeding when he was found. So when they came back, and the doctor saw him, his wounds were still bleeding. So that's like, moments. Yes, it does not take long for you to stop leading up this justed.
Matthew:But it also takes I mean, it doesn't take long for you to bleed out.
Marissa:And I mean, like, the heart stops pumping, your bloods gonna stop flowing.
Matthew:Right? So that means that like, I mean, if, if he's, if he's still bleeding, then that also would make it seem as though he's still dying at this point. And it would also be really hard for the murderer to not be covered in blood, I would think,
Marissa:yes, we'll get into that a little bit. He had certainly been killed very recently. There was not a lot of time before they found him before he had been attacked. He may have actively still been dying, you know. Anyway, the family doctor actually lived right across the street that they fetched him they brought him over, it did not take any time at all. He estimated that the time of death was around 11am Lizzie was asked where Abby was and Lizzie said she thought that she had gone to visit a sick friend but later she said that she thought that lit that Abby was home and could someone go check on her
Matthew:waving go check on her like she she's like if you're screaming for the maid to come with the with your to come take care of of of this dead body you found or your whatever your dying father, whatever. Nobody else in the house heard you. Oh no. Now it seems like conspiracy. I think I think they're in cahoots.
Marissa:It's only Abby. Lizzie and Maggie. Maggie says she was asleep. Or sleeping turn a nap.
Matthew:That's what I'm saying. And she yelled loud enough for Lizzie yell loud enough that Maggie woke up to come and see what was going on and then go get the doctor then come back. And you and Lizzie is expecting that Abby didn't hear any of this going on? Yeah, that's the thing. Is 11 o'clock. Everyone just goes into a fucking coma at their house.
Marissa:Well, I think that's the thing here. She initially was like why don't think Abby's even here. But then she was like, You know what? I think Abby actually is here because I'm gonna go check on her. Mm hmm. So there are some
Matthew:people are asking about Abby, somebody else go find the body. Exactly.
Marissa:But that's that's the thing. That's what I think is happening. Anyway, she was asked she That's what she said. Can someone go check on Abby, her uncle Sullivan did go upstairs at this point, along with a neighbor though
Matthew:was he you just said there was nobody else there.
Marissa:He had gone out to get some oxygen and visitors Nice. So he does come back at this point. So he's back at this point. He goes up to visit along with a neighbor, Mrs. Churchill. And before he got all the way up to the stairs, he could see just at eye level with the floor. Abby lying in a puddle of her own blood facedown on the floor. Abby's body has now been discovered. police come and they do their own thing. But the crime scenes eventually removing the bodies. And so the investigation begins. And with that, let's see what we can dig up from our sponsors. I didn't want to say sponsor wants to say someone's sponsor,
Matthew:a sponsor for for affiliates. Let's see what
Marissa:we can take out from our sponsors.
Matthew:So for today's sponsor, today's sponsor is coming at you a little late. We didn't have a sponsor spot in the last episode. And I meant to put this in there because it was more appropriate for the time but I would like to take a moment and thank one of my two very first sponsors. Today's sponsor is my dad. He has been mostly supportive of my decisions throughout My entire life providing necessary feedback and guidance as needed. A big thanks to one of the major players in my existence, without whom I wouldn't be here. I am sorry for the mistakes I have made and not learning what, quote unquote, you'll understand what you have kids really meant until well, until I had kids. Thanks for the sacrifices and hard work that you put in throughout the many.
Marissa:Sorry, I'm sorry.
Matthew:Why are you why are you mess with the phone again, just trying to see if we had any reviews. Thanks for the sacrifices and hard work you put in throughout the many years that we've known each other, and for everything you've done and will do for me, and the entire family. Happy birthday, although it was a few weeks ago, and many more.
Marissa:Lizzie has asked many questions to begin with, along with other members of the household. Of course. At first she says that she heard and groan when she came back into the house. She at one point said that she heard some scrapes. At one point she said she heard somebody call for help, as she was coming into the house but later
Matthew:this is all Lizzie giving this is living testimony. Yes. Okay. So later and are just like in
Marissa:people questioning. So two hours later, which was actually just two hours later, she actually says that she entered the house without knowing anything was wrong and did not hear a thing. So this is not like she's changing her story. weeks later. She's changing her story quickly. Police nearly every one of them said later they did not like her attitude. She was cold. She was very poised did not seem upset at all that her father and stepmother were dead. She kept changing her story. her alibi changed. Police did search her room but they did not do that much beyond you know a brief cursory search because she didn't feel
Matthew:good. So why not what he has leased up but stayed the same.
Marissa:Yeah, so they said that they didn't want to disturb her anymore, whatever. They also never checked her for blood coming back to the bloodstains they never checked to see if she had blood on her. They did find two hatches in the basement of the house. One was an axe The other was just the head of an axe. The handle of that one was broken and looked like it had been recently broken since it there was was pretty fresh at the break compared to the rest of the things in the basement. They believe this was the murder weapon. The dust that was on this axe head was not the same as the other weapons in the basement. It kind of looked like somebody had deliberately applied darts to it to make it look dirtier than it been, but it ended up just making it stand out. As I said the family had been quite ill the week prior to the murders. Because of this, the police searched for poison in the house. They confiscated the family's milk along with testing the contents of the stomach's of both of the victims. Lucy had also inquired about poison, specifically prusik acid which came into play with an earlier episode in police believed that she had purchased some at a local drugstore but she insisted that she had just asked about it. She hadn't actually bought it because she just wanted someone to clean her furs. That's it from bloodstains just in general. There was not a good use for it as a medical examiner testified because prusik acid has no antiseptic properties. So it actually would not have done that but they did not they did not actually find poison anywhere. So that was just that was a brick wall there that night after the police left. Emma's friend Alice Russell stayed the night with Lizzie uncle Morris. He was also there he stayed but he was in the attic. Some people speculated that he stayed in the same room as the murder of Abby but that's not the case. He actually stayed in the attic. Police were keeping an eye on the place watching what was going on. And that was when an investigator outside looked in and he saw that Lizzie and Alice went into the cellar together with a bucket and a lamp. He saw both women come out but then Lizzie returned alone.
Matthew:You have to assume that the seller is entrance only from the outside then
Marissa:unclear but then he saw Lizzy bent over a sink. So we couldn't exactly see what she was doing. I'm assuming he could see inside instead of sink. Most people don't have a sink outside. At this point. As we know happens. People were in a frenzy over the news. What happens here right? Somebody gets murdered. That's the big news. When Lizzie's Uncle John Moores left the house the day after the murders, he was mobbed by hundreds of people and he actually had to be escorted back to the house by the police. Many people outside on the sixth which is two days after the murder, police returned to the boarding house. It was at this point that they searched the home more thoroughly and took a closer look at the clothing of the sisters. It was also at this point that the police took the broken hatchet head from the house so they had not taken it initially they had left it in the house even though they thought it was the murder weapon. That evening. The police major and another officer returned to the house to inform Lizzie that she was now a suspect in the murder. The next morning, the friend who had stayed Alice Russell, she entered the kitchen to see Lizzie tearing up a dress Lizzie said that it was covered in paint. It was going to be destroyed by fire. She says she tore it up and she burned it. We do not know if this was the dress that was worn during the murders because it's gone.
Matthew:That seems like Lizzie is an idiot just everything she's doing just is just like he been. He been speculation on herself.
Marissa:Absolutely. But the thing is without that dress they can't prove it.
Matthew:Yeah, but when I mean ripping it apart, I mean, I mean, I guess, burning up regardless, just everything just seems so stupid and like to try to make an alibi of not being there when there's somebody else that knows that you were there.
Marissa:I don't know. Yeah, it's sketchy. So that's done.
Matthew:I mean, normally my stance on this is to pick somebody else who's probably not the culprit, and then back them now. I'm pretty sure she's, I'm pretty sure she's she's, she's dead to rights on this one.
Marissa:Meanwhile, Lizzie got a prescription for morphine to calm her nerves. And this may have not really helped her much because I had the side effect of making her seem just kind of loopy. Morphine is going to do that to you. It's a painkiller. But it also is highly addictive one very effective, it can just make you just not think straight, she contradicted herself. I'm thinking straight. Yeah, she's not doing a great job already. But this made this this may have been a contributing factor to her, just contradicting herself several times when she answered questions, and she gave her testimony. She just kept changing her story. At one point, she said that she'd helped her father remove the boots, as I told you when he came home, but the crime scene photos obviously show that she did not because he had his boots on when he was murdered. She also had several different answers over what she had been doing when she come home. She refused to answer a lot of questions even when it might have helped her. The district attorney did not believe her at all. And he issued a warrant for her arrest. So she was taken into custody and put in jail on August 11, which is one week after the murders. This received a significant amount of press very excessive amount of press it got a three page write up in the Boston Globe and many other newspapers were covering this.
Matthew:Well, you know, killing your parents might you know get with a hatchet very brutal. Yeah, it's brutal. It's also I mean patricide is, you know, a big deal.
Marissa:It is it's a big deal. So everybody is aware of this, they're very excited to find out what happens. And the trial took place the next summer. And it started on June 5 1893.
Matthew:Also, just having a female who done a physical murder, not like through again, poison, which is a weapons weapon, but doing you know, actually like brutally attacking somebody with with an axe of all things. That's just
Marissa:very sensational. Importantly, a different crime took place in Fall River, which is where all this occurred. Just five days before the trial began. This crime was another AX murder and was a victim named Bertha Manchester who was found hacked to death in her kitchen. So people are very aware of this. And this happens right before the trial starts
Matthew:with nobody having there's no there's no no accused, and birth is murder,
Marissa:not at the trial. But the next year, a man would be found guilty of this crime, who had not even been in town at the time of the board and murders but they did not know that yet.
Matthew:Well, yeah, but I'm saying like Lizzie's trying to bank on the fact that it's just a serial murderer running around literally acts, murdering people.
Marissa:Yeah, at the time of Lizzie's trial, it seemed like there might have been the case, this might have been a case of a repeat killer. So this was in the jury's mind. The whole time this happened was happening. The prosecution did not do a great job at proving the murder weapon was the hatchet head they'd found on the one hand, they claimed that the handle was missing because it had been broken off and was covered in blood. Another officer claimed that he had actually seen the handle near the head of the axe, but other people said that it was just gone. And yes, Alice Russell had seen Lizzy burning a dress, but nobody could prove that that was blood on it. It was gone. So this is very speculative. At this point, there was also some debate about when Lizzie had even been in the house. The maid Maggie Sullivan said that she has seen Lizzie a couple of minutes before 11am Lizzie said that she'd been right after this. She had left to go to the barn for about 20 minutes. But people testify that they had seen her leave the barn of 1103 and then 1110 which is seven minutes later. That's when Lizzie called from downstairs for Maggie Sullivan to come to because her father was dead. So the time the timeline here is very unclear. Yeah, it also
Matthew:come on. No one was watching the house for seven minutes in between No. Well, that's the thing back and forth from the barn and
Marissa:yeah, I mean, it's not like people were looking for it. It's just they might have glanced and see something but are you going to look at your watch at the exact time
Matthew:know when time somebody's leaving and coming back? Right?
Marissa:It's just gonna be guesses really at that point. Maggie was when Maggie actually did come downstairs she was immediately sent off to a doctor and she didn't see Andrew at that time. So there still was a few minutes there even when he may have been dead maybe not for the doctor actually got back. The timeline is a bit muddled as to when Lizzie was actually in the house. So that's an that's important. I did factor into this whole thing. They had autopsy at the bodies of Andrew and Abby board and of course they usually do the heads had been removed during this and they actually brought the skulls into the courtroom during the trial. Lizzy is said to have fainted in the courtroom. She saw these skulls and they were hatched in the head but so you know these are definitely messed up skulls
Matthew:with swooning and like Anything like that was not
Marissa:hard to pretend it was a very popular thing. Yeah. And you know, even if she did murder them, and it's very likely that she did. If she saw these skulls, it's still gonna make an impression. Right, the judge ruled that Lizzie buying prusik acid was not relevant to the case. So that bit was dismissed as evidence. Before the jury left the debate, the associate judge of the trial, his name was Justin Dewey. He gave a lengthy speech to the jury summarizing the trial, but he heavily focused on the case of the defense. So it seems like he was on their side. The jury debated for about an hour and a half. And they came back with a verdict of not guilty.
Matthew:Oh, yeah. What at least
Marissa:Lizzie Borden left the courthouse that day of very happy and free woman.
Matthew:But a lot of that just comes down to disbelief that somebody like that a woman could wield an axe to kill kill people.
Marissa:Yeah, and remember, the family was wealthy?
Matthew:That usually helps. Yeah, but she seems too stupid to pay anybody off.
Marissa:This is a no no, I don't know. It's all speculative. Today, it is still believe that Lizzie Borden did it. Most people believe that she is the one who did it. Of course, there are theories. Some theorize that her father may have abused her, maybe even sexually abused her which was the motive. People didn't really talk about it at the time. There's no evidence but again, people didn't talk about it so we don't know. One author and McBain theorize that Lizzie was actually caught with Emma's friend Alice Russell, in a lesbian encounter by her stepmother who reacted with disgust. And that led to Lizzie's reaction against her murdering her. But when she tried to confess that she did this to her dad, he also reacted that way and she killed him too. This is just a theory.
Matthew:This is all this is all hogwash. The uncle came over, killed, everybody got Lizzy on his side, or talk Lizzy into doing it? Because once the parents were dead, the money would then go to the sisters. And the uncle would help them with that money. It was it was all the uncle's plan.
Marissa:I don't think it was him. But you know, whatever he was willing
Matthew:to talk to me to do on it? I don't know. Seems like even though I don't know. It just seems like what the what the information that we have here. It clearly points to her being the only person who could have done it. Nobody else in the house, yada yada. The uncle stays over. Strangely, I don't know
Marissa:if Lizzie John and Maggie. Some people actually think I might have a Maggie. But we don't know. I'll talk about in a second. Actually later in life. Alice Russell, who was the French she did end up marrying later and she had a fairly good life. Allegedly, she gave a deathbed confession to her sister that she had changed her testimony on the stand to protect Lizzie. So we don't know what she might have actually seen. Another theory is that she was in a dissociative state a fugue state at the time of the murder, and she may not have any memory of it. It just happened when she just lost her mind a little bit and murdered them and doesn't remember. So that's another theory. Emma was not there. The other sister when the murders took place, she was about 15 miles away. But some people think that she might have traveled back home just to murder them and then come and then left again and went back to where she was just in time to get a messenger that said that her dad and stepmother were dead. Louise Uncle John Morris is also a suspect. Mm hmm. Yeah. He was staying there at the time of the murders. But you know what, the only evidence that I've seen against him is that his alibi was too perfect. He was just very detailed with his alibi,
Matthew:right? Because he got Lizzie to do it. I don't know. I mean, he has no claim to any of the wealth that he thought he was going to be able to have claim with or at least benefit from because of his sister. The he gets word that the Papa Barden is giving away all this stuff to his new wife and he's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, that's not okay. He goes in the the very impressionable young Lizzy. Actually she ain't even young. She's 30 She Yeah, but she's stupid. Which same thing? She sees
Marissa:me think Lizzie stupid. You keep saying she's stupid. We don't think she's stupid.
Matthew:You'll think she's stupid. changes her alibi every 15 minutes.
Marissa:I mean, I don't think she's the most intelligent but she's not like distinctly stupid.
Matthew:She's stupid. She makes a bunch of stupid mistakes I don't got a whole lot to go on. Except for the fact that she's making a bunch of mistakes makes a real stupid. She has no alibi. No setup. Tears up addressing she got paint on it. What were you paying? Lizzie? What are you just happen to be painting stuff with with red paint. ain't even nothing red in here. What are you talking about now? Now he just decided to run outside and paint the barn. Because that's what rich women do in the 1890s Shut up. You liar. Just your uncle made you do it whatever.
Marissa:Also Maggie salva? No, because she was also there that day. She was a live in maid and she'd been ordered to clean the windows that day. But it was a very hot, sweltering day and she was already sick. Everybody was sick. So being ordered to clean the windows on such a hot day. It could have been retaliation for this. So that is another theory. It's not your John Morse theory. But what? Yeah, it's
Matthew:not a theory.
Marissa:I mean, I wasn't feeling good. Had to be outside you
Matthew:when you come home. Come on. Also, no. Although, I mean, I guess it could be been that. I mean, not for the Windows, but she says that Lizzie told her Oh, why don't you go down to the market? Blah, blah, blah. She did. Yeah. But Lizzie says I wasn't even home. Yeah. So did you
Marissa:watch a YouTube video about a psychic who said it must have been Mays all of them?
Matthew:Yeah, like a 14 year olds. Whatever.
Marissa:Oh, okay. But basically, it was probably Lizzie. And regardless, Lizzie did go free. Her inner sister lived out their lives briefly in a new house together with indoor plumbing. Whoo hoo. Lizzy started going by the name lisabeth. Probably because her name was infamous at this point. You know, anytime you're gonna say my name is Lizzie Borden. They're gonna be like what? So she becomes Lizbeth
Matthew:that's stupid to Lizbeth Borden. Lizbeth. Oh, okay. Wow. Wow, they really threw people off with that one. Dummy.
Marissa:Yeah, not too far off. But that's why she did it because of the way the law works. And the fact that Abby is believed to have died first, her property passed to Andrew. But then because Andrew also died, it then passed to his heirs, Lizzie and Emma, so they ended up getting the wealth of Abby and Andrew. They got along for a while Lizzy and Emma. But they actually gotten into an argument in 1905 over a party that Lizzie threw for Nancy O'Neill and actress of the time. Emma moved out of the house, and the sisters never saw each other again. This was 1905 they live for another 20 some years.
Matthew:You got to see how stupid that is. They get into a fight about a damn party and they never talk to each other again. See these people? No, no. These people she's stupid. That's stupid, more stupid stuff.
Marissa:So it seems like they lived together for 1213 years before this blow up happened never to see each other again. It's quite pretty sad actually. They're pretty much at what 40 in their 40s At this point, and they split up because they can't get along and then they live another 20 Some years and they never see each other
Matthew:almost like if I stay with this bitch she's gonna fucking hit me with a knife.
Marissa:You know what could happen? I could understand that. In the 1927 Lizzy had a surgery for a gallbladder and she never really recovered. She was pretty, pretty, pretty ill for a while, and she died of pneumonia on June 1 1927. In the same town she grew up in which I mean whatever, Lizzy. But it
Matthew:was her because her name was Lizbeth. So you would
Marissa:you would think she would have moved away but she did not. She stayed in the same town. Few people attended the funeral. It wasn't really publicized, but still not that many people came. Yeah, cuz they didn't know who the fuck Elizabeth was. Maybe just nine days later, her sister died from chronic nephritis
Matthew:which is a kidney failure. What is it?
Marissa:Yeah, it can cause like inflammation of your kidneys and you're not able to filter out the waste as much so it's it's a it's a problem and chronic means it's happened for a long enough time to where it's really causing issues. It's not an acute illness. It's just over a long time. She's had this bad kidney failure. Yeah, and this is really sad. I mean, it was just nine days after Lizzie died and they hadn't seen each other in 20 years at this point.
Matthew:She really sad like, sad murderers.
Marissa:It was not Lizzie. Elizabeth you don't know that? We don't know that it's a theory but it still sucks I mean they were close it seems like they were really close sisters their whole life they live together
Matthew:not close enough to have like one little Hollywood starlet actually wasn't Hollywood at that time. But one little actress One actress come in and blow up their whole damn. Yeah, the whole damn relationship ain't that close Don't be
Marissa:don't be project happens all the time. Families getting into a big argument and then they never talk again. It's it's a stupid usually stupid thing seems to be what happened here, but they were buried side by side in the family plot in Oak Grove cemetery. Emma was 76 and Lizzie was 66. When Lizzie died she was worth nearly nearly$5 million. In today's money. She left about $600,000 to the Fall River Animal Rescue League. Remember she really liked those pigeons. Yeah, and $10,000 for continuing care of her father's grave.
Matthew:So I think people do that. I think murderers have a tendency to try to do that to make it to try to make them feel a
Marissa:bit better. Yeah, to try to cover their shit. Yeah, the rest of our money was left to friends and family members. And we certainly know the right I have Lizzie Borden took an axe and gave her mother 40 wax. When she saw what she had done her, she gave her father 41. But these numbers are not right. They sound good and a children's rhyme, but actually Andrew Borden was hit 10 or 11 times, and Abby was struck 18 or 19 times so it's not quite right. But it sounds really cool. You can still visit the house that the murders took place in it's a bed and breakfast now and a museum. It's in Fall River Massachusetts, of course, they still keep it decorated very like it was when Lizzie and her family lived there. Guest report that it's haunted. Of course, seeing a woman in a night gown filling their ears and their limbs being pulled. The caretaker claims that he's seen doors move on their own, but he's the caretaker so take that with a grain of salt. You can still see the blood stained floorboards were Andrew board and lay after he was killed. I looked up these pictures and if you stay in one of the basement rooms you can see above where the blood dripped onto the floorboards and down through them. And that's where it looks like the stain is still there. I checked on TripAdvisor and has 4.7 out of five stars and I just checked the dates for next week which is like end of November beginning of December and it looks like rooms go between 204 $100 A night. Yeah, is the
Matthew:basement cheaper? Oh, I don't know. I mean it is the basement but it's also the basement where supposedly the murder weapon was fun I'm sure I'm sure that the room that the stepmother was killed in is probably the most expensive
Marissa:I looked it up I guess they all have people people commented that they're actually very comfortable beds and they use Ghost mattresses. Pusher
Matthew:they they've changed the beds
Marissa:No they're not the same bigger they've changed though. They tried to make it look like it did but it's not all original. I think the the radiators are original and the floorboards original but that's about it. There might be some more stuff in there but that's the things they call out the blood is the blood on floorboards. Yes,
Matthew:severed pigeon heads are original. The bodies are still there.
Marissa:Now.
Matthew:We should have brought the bat skulls back.
Marissa:It doesn't look like they actually had the skulls themselves in the courtroom. They had plaster casts of them still gruesome.
Matthew:And that will do it for this week's entry into the macabrepedia thank you as always for tuning in and tuning in. That seems that's that's certainly an old radio too old out of date term. Thank you as always for listening to us tell you about dead stuff. If you have any questions, concerns, comments, anything you'd like us to cover, please feel free to reach out.
Marissa:Facebook and Twitter are at macabrepedia and Instagram is at macabrepediapod if you have any questions reach out to us at macabrepediapod@gmail.com
Matthew:Or just shoot me something on Twitter because or us on Twitter. Send us a message and as always thank you join us next week as we add another entry into this our macabrepedia here