Macabrepedia: A Marriage of True Crime and the Truly Bizarre

The Prince of Poisoners (Free Willy)

November 01, 2021 Matthew & Marissa Season 1 Episode 13
Macabrepedia: A Marriage of True Crime and the Truly Bizarre
The Prince of Poisoners (Free Willy)
Show Notes Transcript

William Palmer or "the Prince of Poisoners" is known for poisoning his friend John Cook after Cook won big at a horserace in 1855. But he also lost his wife, five children, a mother-in-law, his brother, his uncle... and the bodies piled up. Did he poison them all? What evidence is there?











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Matthew:

macabrepedia deals with dark subject better and may not be suitable for all audiences listener discretion is advised.

Marissa:

A colorless bitter substance that is highly toxic and be effective when inhaled, swallowed or absorbed through a mucous membrane has been used to kill birds, rats and other pest animals and famously, in many murders. It has been used as a biostimulant and a performance enhancing drug for athletes. But in the wrong dose, which can be just 30 to 120 milligrams and humans. It acts fast, causing convulsions and soon death by a six year strychnine is a neurotoxin that is a deadlier cousin to morphine, cocaine, nicotine and caffeine. In 1892, writer Henry Randolph bought strychnine, intending to poison a cat. He kept it in his bedside table. One night, he woke up, and in the dark, confused the powder that he wanted quinine with the strychnine powder. He mixed it into a tonic and drank it. Within three and a half hours he was dead. It's been banned for uses a rat poison since 2006. In the UK, and in the US, most bait traps have been replaced with a safer zinc phosphate trap since 1990. When exposed symptoms progress quickly to include tachycardia, high blood pressure, quick breathing, excessive sweating, lock jaw, muscle spasms, vomiting, and eventually cardiac arrest, brain damage and respiratory failure. famously used to donuts mystery films, strychnine is a poison that once you've consumed it, you know pretty quickly that something has gone terribly wrong. Join us as we add another entry into this our copper pedia.

Unknown:

Hello and welcome to macabrepedia a marriage of true crime and they're truly bizarre. I am your host, Matthew and we are here with Marissa also host I don't know that one didn't work out quite right. But more more of a host since then than I am in most cases. But it seems like we are talking today about women.

Marissa:

How'd you get that?

Unknown:

Because it sounds like we're talking about poison and poison as a women woman's weapon. Ah, no, we're not actually talking about a man who was killed by a woman using poison. No, I don't this doesn't know. I don't. I don't feel like you did the right research.

Marissa:

Get your expectations and throw them out the window.

Matthew:

So what are we talking about today?

Marissa:

So we're talking about William Palmer.

Unknown:

That doesn't sound like a lady. No. Did I not just explain this? Yeah, but it just doesn't doesn't sit right. I don't believe it. Okay, well, I'm just gonna keep moving. William Palmer was born August 6 1824 in a place called Rugeley Staffordshire. And I did have to write down how to pronounce Wrigley. So I think that's right. He grew up and into a man who appreciated the finer things in life. But he also didn't really know how to handle his money. And this usually leads to debt and it did for him and sometimes creative ways to get out of this debt. William was released from apprenticeship when he was just 17 because he was accused of embezzlement, apprenticeship in what profession and medicine. Right he was actually separately released from a different apprenticeship when he was found to be performing secret abortion services to get some cash on the side. That's an unusual side hustle. Yes, particularly at the time. He also developed a reputation as a ladies man during this time, and he also really enjoyed gambling and horse racing didn't really help him to focus on his medical training. But nonetheless, he kept training while in his medical training at a place called Stafford infirmary. Palmer was accused of poisoning an acquaintance during a drinking competition. So though he was accused, nothing can be proven. The guy did not die. He just got sick. What could they do? They didn't really they couldn't really do anything. They took note of it. I mean, drinking too much makes it seem is alcohol poisoning. can't just blame somebody for Buddy. Drinking. It was suspected it wasn't proven right? So they did however at this point implement tighter controls over their substances as precaution. It's always a smart move, and they restricted access to the drugs and their dispensary at the hospital. Yeah, want the infirmary in 1846 William Palmer met the requirements that he needed to qualify for work as a doctor.

Matthew:

Yeah, good job, William.

Unknown:

He moved back to rural in Staffordshire to practice and he married and works the next year at a place called St. Nicholas Church, and Brooks now became an Homer, of course, to the very next year, and they got to be married with all that means and then they had their first child within a couple of years. He has a son. So William has his wife. He has a son. He's a doctor. And what a

Matthew:

perfect life. Good job, William. And he also has

Marissa:

a hobby. He, you know, gambled? I guess that's a hobby, right?

Unknown:

That's a hobby battle, see how that plays into his perfect little life that he has? Well, so the first time William Palmer was connected to a death was when his mother in law died. She was visiting William and Anne at their house. And so this was like only two years of their marriage. She was like 50 years old when she died. And then the next year, a house guest who was named Leonard Bladen. He came by and stayed with them. But then he also died. He was 49. That's not unusual. We're not done yet. So then in October of 1852, Palmer's 62 year old uncle's visiting them had borrowed time 62 Back in the 1800s. And he died. Well, yeah, of course, they died at William Palmer's house. He was a doctor. They don't have like, they don't have like, virtual doctor appointments. Like you need to be around your doctor, you're going to have him traveling all over the damn place. So you go to his house, you stay in his guest room that he has for sick relatives so that he can work a little work a little magic on him. That's fair, right? Yeah. So nothing suspicious. I'm telling you men don't poison people. It's women's work. So then between January of 1851, and 1850, for about three years, their four children

Matthew:

were born. Thanks for doing the math for us.

Unknown:

You're welcome. Four children were born with an and William. And they all died of quote, convulsions, they died within either hours or months. There's, you know, some change there. But they were all that they all died while they were infants, nobody after their first child actually made it into adulthood. Well, that's that's a string of bad luck. Well, well, to be fair, infant mortality was a definite problem. But four out of five of their children dying was not really the norm. So at the time in the UK, infant mortality rates, they were high, but it was actually about 33%. So why not a three? Okay, they lost four out of five. So it's 80%. And it's definitely more than the normal. malnourishment. Maybe? No, you Okay, your dietitian now, you know, your nutritionist? Well, I mean, they were they were born seemingly healthy, that they died, either, like some of them lasted months. So we don't know. We don't know. Suspicious, looking back on it. Right. I mean, I guess. Yeah. I mean, it sucks. It's actually them as a as a family. I don't think that that William needs to be getting put on the spot for it. Well, we're not done. You know, every death that's happened around William so far can be seen as a tragedy of circumstances. As you said, you know, infant mortality was a thing. Some families were hit harder than others for sure. So it could have just been really bad during a block. The guests also who died, the older ones, the adults, they they died when they were visiting, but they were all older for the time. So these did not attract suspicion toward William. But then his wife and Palmer dies on September 29 1854. And she is just 27 years old on September 29. Yes, that's when my mom died. Not the same year. But yeah, this would be weird, would be vampire spoilers. So and was believed at the time to have died of cholera though because at the time there was an outbreak that was happening around here. So they figured she died of cholera. It was kind of written off as that. So almost nine months exactly later, the housemate Eliza Thorne gave birth to Williams illegitimate son Alfred proves nothing. It doesn't know. I mean, it just shows that maybe he's a little shaky. Well, you know what, he doesn't do well with grief or he didn't want to have the risk of impregnating his wife and having that whole thing happen again.

Marissa:

So you think he wants another kid?

Unknown:

Maybe Maybe he wants another child maybe he just you know, was scared that you know, she was sickly in her own right and probably couldn't, couldn't survive carrying another child to term whatever. Still illegitimate. Still not from society standpoint at that standpoint at the time. Still not great. Well, to be fair, it's to be fair right now it's still not great. Not a great look,

Marissa:

but it's nowhere near like it was well, yeah,

Matthew:

well, it's still just not a great luck to have your housekeeper come up. Well, no,

Unknown:

that's just met the illegitimate part. But no, if you have a housekeeper as your baby nine months later, yeah, that's that's a little skeezy. Yeah. Can you wait a little bit, man, but um, mean not to get not to get this is not necessarily joking around. But the dude had a side hustle for abortions. Like if he didn't want it, you know what I mean? He knows, he knows how to take care of that situation. Clearly, baby is born. Right if he wanted another child, that's why they kept trying in the tragedy after tragedy after tragedy. And then he said, You know what? I married someone who can't give me another child. He just wants to be a dad. So though she was young William's wife and her death did not attract a lot of tension here. Right? People believe she died of cholera. And they comforted the young widower, right? Go to bed bed stir death. Yeah, so maybe that's, you know, behind the baby being born nine months later, but Palmer collected a 12,000 pound insurance policy he that he had taken out on his wife. Okay, because he's also a responsible adult person who has a life insurance plan. Next, give me a whole lot of circumstantial evidence, it

Marissa:

is very circumstantial, but like looking back on it

Unknown:

means nothing. Yes. No, doesn't hold water really in debt and to get this 12,000 pounds? I mean, come on. Alright. So after this, he decided to to insure his brother, also. Right, because he also saw how important it is that death can come from for you at any age he can, and it's a, it's a, it's a responsible thing to do is to encourage your entire family to get insured because you never know what's gonna happen. It's true that you never know. Right. But his brother died shortly after he took this policy out. Also in 1855, but because there was not enough time between when the policy was taken out, and when his brother died, he was not able to collect the insurance because the company did not pay out. Yeah. And that's just reinforces the idea that everyone needs to have life insurance because you never know. His own brother died. He just, you know, I agree. Okay, but moving on, right. So if we're being generous here, you can see that this man keeps losing loved ones all around. And that sucks, right? He lost his wife. He lost four kids. He's lost his brother, his uncle, etc. And law, everybody. So we spent this time at horse races and gambling to comfort himself. Yeah, it's not the best way but it's not the worst, I guess. Well, I mean, sure. He gets really deeply in debt. He was already in debt, but this is just makes it worse. And with debt, you know, there usually comes trouble. You don't take care of it, or if you can't take care of it. So what does William do? He goes to a horse race to gamble. So he decides to go with his friend. So between November 13 and 15th and 1855, William goes to a horse race called the Shrewsbury handicap with his buddy John Parsons Cook Book is important. So they bet on a different horse for these races. Individually, they bet on different they did they bet on different horses and Cooke ended up winning a lot of money, betting on a horse called Pollstar. Palmer, however, decided that he would bet on a different horse who was actually named the chicken. And surprise, surprise, lost a lot of money. Okay, a couple things here. One they probably had said, you bet on one bet on the other will hedge our bets will split we'll split the take. Who seems good chicken? I mean, I've been on the defense team chicken is almost always the answer. But no, so yeah, you bet on one I'll bet on the other. We'll split we'll split the winnings. Everybody wins. You keep trying to paint this Poor William as if he's this destitute guy who's in all this debt. And then you just said that he lost a bunch of money horse racing where how to get this money to put on this horse if he so destitute? I didn't say was destitute. I said he was in debt. Yeah. Okay. Well, okay, so maybe he's gonna respond. I you know, you know how I feel about about debts. So, yes, I understand that not everybody is responsible with the money that they take in and they go and they they spend it on stuff that they want to do horse racing Playstations whatever.

Marissa:

I think that's pretty typical for debtors. Yeah.

Unknown:

I can promise you it's typical for debtors. Yeah. When you take it you spend on something you want. I mean, yeah, I'm just saying I mean, yeah, okay. So maybe it's a responsible will give well, okay, that I will give you he's irresponsible, but He's grieving. People make bad decisions.

Marissa:

For like his whole life. It's not just you

Unknown:

He's been breathing his whole life. He's lost four kids, a wife, a mother in law and uncle. And I'm getting a little suspicious. He's gonna lose a friend. I wonder why. So anyway, they went back to a local pub after this and they celebrated drinking heavily. Cook started to feel ill

Matthew:

because they were drinking heavily.

Unknown:

Well, that's what he thought. So he thought he just drank too much brandy. He was body. He said his throat burned. That sucks, right. But the next day cook felt somewhat better. So he in Palmer headed back home. So two days later, this was on November 17. John Cook and Palmer's new illegitimate son, Alfred remember him? They both start feeling ill. Alfred actually dies that same day. That is the fifth child of Palmer to die in infancy.

Matthew:

Yeah, I think they got black mold in the house.

Unknown:

Maybe that's not good. That's health hazard. Clearly, it's killing all these babies. Right. But cook doesn't live in their house. So he also starts feeling bad again. I feel him bad. No, it's part of feeling bad because Williams has said You know, he starts vomiting. Right. And he complains of that burning sensation in his throat. He's throwing up. Anyway, Palmer is with him. Because he's the Doctor of course you call the doctor. Exactly. So he's trying to nurse him back to health. He provides him all of his food and water and he gives us to him to try to apparently nursing back to health. They're saying in a nearby in new state that he brings him all his food and water. Yeah, okay. I'm just I mean, I feel like you're setting us up. That that is that is a that is a very specific detail. Yes. He brings him to all of his food and water. Nobody else touches. Nobody else touches his food water. Not sure so they are staying in a nearby and called Talbot arms at this point. The next day after they get there. A maid actually tastes this broth that was made for him. And she also starts to Phil Hill starts tearing up. she recovers but she's getting the symptoms the same as cokehead.

Matthew:

They have peanut allergy.

Marissa:

I don't think it's a peanut soup. To me. Anyway,

Unknown:

first of all on why is this made? Its food like yeah, get off the bus boy buffet. style meal. Yeah, just be that's why they're that's why they're both sick. This, this this may clearly has a disease. It she's going around and eating everybody's frickin soup. I mean, I imagine this as like, she got sick. And then someone questioned her. And she's like, well, I did try this too. Yeah. On the probably on the stand watch. She's gonna be called in. And you're Oh, yeah. Yeah, we all see. This is this is a frame job. This is a frame job. Continue. Tell me I'm long later. Good. So okay, we've got this other detail. That is a bit suspicious here. So Palmer goes and he actually goes to collect cooks winnings for the horse race. He goes himself to cook to collect his friends winnings. And then he takes this and he uses it to pay off his own debts. You're nothing to say about that. Whoa, this dude has gone to this hotel hanging out with his buddy trying to nurse him back to health. This dude is like, I feel really, really sick. You know what I'm not like at your practice. So I'll tell you what, I want a bunch. We said we'd split the winnings. So go ahead, take that as part of the payment for all of the help that you're doing

Marissa:

here. Speculation.

Unknown:

This is his back. This is this is the only story that can be wondering how easy it is to actually collect somebody else's debt. Like that seems weird.

Matthew:

It's 1800s. Like.

Unknown:

So anyway, four days after cook started to feel bad here. He actually dies in the early hours of the morning. And then two hours, two days rather after he dies, his stepfather comes to visit. And he's there to like, take care of things on behalf of the family. And he is a little suspicious here. I mean, think about it. his stepson just won a lot of money betting on a horse race. He's young and in fairly good health or he was and suddenly he falls sick and dies in a matter of days. All while around his one doctor friend who brought him and you know, brought him food and water and all this stuff. Also all came to that doctor. He gets suspicious and he insists upon a post mortem. And they order it. Mm hmm. It's during this that his death is ruled a case of willful murder. Why? I mean, why Hi, well, why would they why would they jump to murder? What would the what was in this all what was in the autopsy? Well autopsy reports because Palmer was a doctor, he was allowed at the autopsy as a colleague. Obviously, it wouldn't happen now. But at the time he was, and he tried to bribe several people who were involved, which helps raise suspicion about him. he pressured the doctor to label cooks cause of death as apoplexy, which in either time was death due to suddenly falling unconscious, lots of causes of death fall within that nowadays, we use it to refer to a stroke, that the term was more broad at the time, so I wanted him to label it apoplexy. While at the autopsy, he bumped into the doctor who was lifting out the stomach, which caused the contents of the stomach to spill out onto the floor. And then they they did end up saving some of the contents of the stomach. It didn't actually spell out everything. And they put this in a jar. And then Palmer tried to steal that jar. Because he didn't think that they were doing him justice. And he was like, I'm gonna do my own research. Really, tell me something different. So then it was discovered that shortly before cook got sick and died, Palmer had purchased a quantity of strychnine, which was actually used for a variety of purposes. So it was actually really easy to get it at the time was a strychnine strychnine. So it was known to be a way of killing people like at the time, they were very aware of this method of killing people mostly by women. So because of all this, Palmer was rested. Oh, you want an ad? I guess. Let's take a break and see what we can dig up today's sponsor is procrastination. I'm not familiar with that at all. That that's it. Really? That's that's all I had time to do. Oh my god. Okay, well, just so you know, we are recording this date the day before it goes live because you know, procrastination. Yes. Yeah, procrastination is a is a is a is a bad thing. But no, but I would like to actually take a quick time and I'd like to give a quick shout out to the author Andrew neuen, who was kind enough to send us a copy of the Bathsheba Spooner book that he had wrote a big shout out to to Mr. Noon about for doing that and we will most likely in the very near future once Marissa reads through that book, have an episode dedicated to that story, because it does seem to be pretty cool. There's like conspiracy theory. It's really cool so far. The book is called Bathsheba Spooner, a revolutionary murder conspiracy by Andrew noon. So upcoming up, so does Oh, yeah, it's it's a pretty hefty book. I mean, it looks like it was pretty well researched. He's got quite a bit of quite a bit of a bibliography attached to it. But yeah, that was a that was a pretty cool, cool thing that have him reach out. And then of course, we also have our affiliate links in the show notes. As always buzz sprout. If you're looking to make a podcast, you can go follow our affiliate link and get yourself a $20 amazon gift card. When you sign up for a paid subscription to buzz sprout, which is the podcasting host that macabrepedia uses very easy, lots of cool features. And then we may have other affiliate links down there. We have a we have been rejected by a few. I'm not gonna say who they are, just because I think it was my fault, because I didn't submit things right. But it could also be you know, they're not they don't want to associate with such classic quotes as a great test. Let's go to war. But we'll try to figure that out. Anyway, back to William Palmer. So looking back on his life and the tragedies that surrounded him, people start wondering if he actually poisoned these other people as well. So the bodies of an and Walter Palmer and his wife and his uncle, they were exhumed and examined for signs of poisoning. They actually did not find any evidence that proved that they had been poisoned though oh well weird shut down mouth, but related to what we know about cook it was not looking good here. It's looking fine. He didn't do anything. No proof no they don't they don't know they don't have concrete proof here. This is speculation you don't even they have not concrete proof. They have no proof. This dude died. He got But there's more. So they they did move the trial though outside of Staffordshire, they moved it to London to the Old Bailey. They did this to try to find a more impartial jury. They seemed like they were trying to be fair at one point anyway. Oh, sure. The trial lab was this guy on trial with no evidence whatsoever. Let's find an impartial jury, or at least not so good continue. I don't think it was that super fair. But the trial lasted for 12 days here. They actually examined 82 witnesses, a lot 40 of which were in the medical profession or somehow connected to it. Some thought the cause of death was tetanus. Mm hmm. Rather than poisoning strychnine poisoning because it has similar symptoms to strychnine. Yeah. Lockjaw, and all that. Both cause sore muscles and tense muscle spasms, eventual paralysis of the muscles that control your airway. Really, really bad, right? It's not pleasant. Can it be can it be delivered by maids eating food out of the garbage and then go and putting their their dirty ass spoon in somebody else's soup? Maybe? I don't think so. I don't think so. Dirty spoons might be a cause of tetanus per se. But tetanus. It's not that quick. strychnine poisoning is super quick, the symptoms onset pretty fast. And that's the big difference here. It kills very quickly in high doses here. Mm hmm. So also there was motive. There was motive. I don't care what you say. Palmer was in a lot of debt. He was desperate. He was 20,000 pounds in debt. It's good bit. And some of the debts that are associated with that were associated with him had actually he had himself illegally put them in his mother's name. He tried to transfer them to his mother. That's shitty, but it's not. It's a murder. No, it's not. But it's I don't really shitty. I don't see how that's motive. Like where's it getting motive for killing all his kids? Maybe he was just shitty. Maybe he didn't want to be parent. He got attacked. He got attached to the first one. And after that he's like, I don't want to deal with changing my whole narrative. You can't do that. We've already set the narrative. He's a great father. wanted to have a lot of kids. He sure sure. Well, the house is black mold and tetanus everywhere. There's a bunch of rusty nails just sticking out of stairs every day and places he can't afford to fix it. I'm not saying he didn't. He was definitely he had motive for sure. Like he had creditors at his door all the time. He was really desperate. He wanted to get rid of this debt. He also really liked gambling. So that doesn't really help when you're trying to pay off a debt, you can easily lose a bunch of money after the horse races that Palmer and Kokott attendant cook heads one somewhere between one and 2000 pounds, which was a good bit to put towards that debt. Plus, he had about 700 pounds on his person in cash. And then Palmer had lost lost all of his money there. He was pretty desperate, and you couldn't see it as he wanted that money. Also, the two men were together at the race when coke got sick, and Palmer stayed with him to supervise the food that he got when they arrived back in Wrigley and cook vomited with all of his meals. Once he did that. It's noted that if the food did not come through Palmer cook did not vomit from it. So at one point during this, Palmer had left, and it was proven later that he had left to buy more strychnine. So while he was gone, cook seemed to be getting better. And he didn't vomit that his meals. But when he returned, that night cook convulsed and screamed really loudly. It was loud enough to be heard by other people who were at the end at the time. And Palmer came over and gave him some medicine, which did at the time seemed to help cook recover some. The next morning, Palmer purchased double the amount of strychnine that he had bought the day before. He also bought something called prusik acid, which was another very fast acting poison. He also bought opium, which depresses the central nervous system, and it can cause you to slow your breathing enough to where you will die. This is three different types of poison that he bought. Opium is also a drug that, you know, he's trying to get his body to. Morphine comes from opium. I mean, it's a pain reliever because he was screaming throughout his throughout his nights and stuff. strychnine No, and not the press ik acid. I don't know much about pressing Yes. So later that day, he gave coke two pills, which are said to cause more vomiting and convulsions, which actually led to the death of coke within an hour after he got those pills. Yeah, not a pleasant last ditch effort to save him. They actually did not find strychnine on his body whoa they could find no evidence of it and his system weird but their techniques are not double the amount Oh weird Are you guess what? But it's not even in the frickin system right now and metabolizes quickly it cannot it you don't necessarily at the time anyway. You wouldn't necessarily see evidence of it because it would be gone. No Evidence no murder, the remaining Gods Step. When the remaining stomach contents were tested, the toxicologist only found a small amount of antimony, which to be fair is an ingredient found in normal medicines. But that does not mean that the poison was not there. The toxicologist concluded that even without the detected presence of strychnine in the stomach, the reported symptoms before death lined up with poisoning, and he concluded that this was the cause of death, but also was dealt with food poisoning. Still, the similarity between the death of John Parsons coke and known strychnine victims, and the fact that he was known to purchase like pretty much like a ton of strychnine poison, like right before coke got sick. That was enough for them. The judge instructed the jury to take into account all of the evidence, including that Palmer had taken cokes winnings from the horse race and use them for himself, which was scummy it's not proof of murder, but it was a gentleman's agreement that they would split their winnings whoever won. Okay, sure. And he had tried to cover up the evidence when he had because and the autopsy right, because he bumped into some dude. Golly, yes, because he bumped into some dude, he bumped into some guy. And now it's all in I want to also still jar though, with the remaining stomach contents, like I'm not fully on the side of he did it on this one, because it's kind of incredibly circumstantial, but no, it does. I have persuaded you and no, so they took all of this into consideration, and the jury found him guilty. He might not guilty. No, I did not. I found him guilty. He was convicted of the murder of John Parsons, Coke. And he was sentenced to die by hanging. So on June 14 1856 30,000. People I mean, we know this hanging was a big deal. Public 30,000 is massive. Yeah. So 30,000 People gathered at Stafford prison to watch the doctor hang. That was like the entertainment. This is this imagine this we're gonna go down to the old prison watch somebody be? Anyone want to go with us? It's been said that Palmer stepped out when he saw the trapdoor. And he actually asked if it was safe. And they were like, You know what? You're right. It isn't it is until I pop that lever. Which maybe if it if he was innocent, if if f that's kind of sad. People would later say that he shouldn't have been convicted because the evidence was circumstantial. As we've said, when you say later, you mean, people besides me? Because yes, not just you. Also later and a person who thinks that you're not the only one. So be is, it was enough at the time for the judging jury. And William Palmer, deny the murder until the end. Although I do think it's interesting that he only denied that he died from stripping. Like he said, I am innocent, a poisoning cook by strychnine. And somewhere else. I said he did he, I saw that he said, he did not die from strychnine. And I'm like, well, that's a caveat on there. Maybe just, I didn't kill him. Well, he Well, I mean, maybe he also bought opium and prusik acid. And he might also just be a really bad cook. That's why everybody in his household dies. And he's like, I didn't kill him with strychnine. It was bad potato. There's actually a death mask of William Palmer. called back to Episode One night, of course, his death mask. The rope that he was hanged? It was actually sold in the town where the Hanged man lived. Yeah, they're good for that. Yeah, it was a very popular. And, I mean, if I could get some hang man rope. Yeah, I would get it. I mean, for a reasonable price. I don't want it that bad. Now, I mean, I would get it for a good price, I guess. 90 years later, though. In 1946, a final piece of evidence was published, which was a prescription for opium, written in Palmer's handwriting. And on the back, there was a receipt from a chemist for strychnine and opium. And this did prove that he did die it that day. And again, not that that necessarily means that he murdered him. But circumstantially, it does look bad. It looks bad, also might be why all this people at his house died. He was trying to kill rats, and he just wasn't a very good exterminator his doctor, that was another argument here that he was very good at poisons. And so he knew the correct dose to give him were wouldn't show up in the autopsy because it would be enough to kill them, but not enough to show up afterward. So that was a big argument. I guess that's I mean, that's that that that is an okay. He said evidence, I suppose. But I just don't think that it. No. I mean, again, you're not alone. A lot of people nowadays feel like it just was not enough evidence for them to have convicted. Yeah, I mean, it's not this is not a time of innocent until proven guilty. No, certainly not actually read today, that phrase What's your poison may have, in fact come from these events. Oh, apart from William Palmer. That's cute. And that is the tale of William Palmer, and the trial of the Queen versus William Palmer. And that was a central criminal court may 14 to the 26th 1856. 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