From a chance detour, we came across the Sidna Allen House. Then into the wormhole on this week's episode about the Hillsville Courthouse Massacre, a bit of forgotten Appalachian history.
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From a chance detour, we came across the Sidna Allen House. Then into the wormhole on this week's episode about the Hillsville Courthouse Massacre, a bit of forgotten Appalachian history.
Twitter & Facebook: @macabrepedia
Instagram: @macabrepediapod
Email us at: @Macabrepediapod@gmail.com
Ref:
https://theroanoker.com/interests/history/hillsville-massacre
https://www.geni.com/people/Floyd-Allen/6000000137616036007#:~:text=March%2014%2C%201912%20-%20After%20Floyd%20Allen%20is,Massacre.%22%20Allen%20and%20his%20family%20flee%20the%20scene.
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Matthew:On a somewhat empty stretch of highway 52 next to a scattering of flea markets and farmland through fancy gapped Virginia rest Carroll County's most beautifully designed home the paint flakes from the siding and shutters sure the roof shingles could use replacing around the porches gazebo. But the white columns and artfully carved filigree remain to stand as proof to its magnificent against 100 plus years of time. The house was designed and built by the man who dreamed of one day living there. But as a result of three wrongful death lawsuits brought against the owner of the house. The home was seized by the state on behalf of the families of those who died. It was rented out for the next five years before two defense attorneys, Nicholas P. ogilby and Robert P. Bruce bought it and continued its use as a boarding house. These defense lawyers once represented the man who built the house Sidna Allen, one of the men who headed what would sometimes be referred to as the Allen gang. Join us as we add another entry into this our Macabrepedia.
Marissa:Hello, and welcome to Macabrepedia a marriage of true crown the truly bizarre. We're your hosts Marissa and Matthew. And today we're bringing you a story for something that we just kind of happened upon. While we were on my way to my cousin's wedding.
Matthew:Yeah, we were driving by we were driving into fancy get Virginia, right. And it's just right off of 77 which stretches for forever. And while we're driving by Marissa was driving and we see this like really beautiful little white house not that little it stands out. It definitely stands out. It is very, it is very different than everything else around it's, there's, like I said in the opening, there's like a little there's like a little flea market, kind of like, you know, tin garage sale kind of thing happening there. And it's there's like variety shops and a little gas station and the rest is like just like farmland and pastures. Right? Yeah. But in front of this house, is a sign that I had jokingly said, as we drove up to it, that house or that sign in front of that house looks like the same sign as in front of the Valeska house murderers. Little did you know, yeah, so while we while we're continuing up the road, I just decided to just, you know, throw it into into a wiki search. And lo and behold, there it is associated to some murders, not the house itself. But the guy who built it said and Alan, he was no stranger to run ins with law enforcement at the time. And the story is not really much about Sidna nor the house. But that's the story in which we came upon this. And I'm certain that the expensive wood and stained glass windows were likely funded, at least in part by some less than legal activities, which the quote unquote Allen gang were accused, Sidney Allen, he never really had much of a chance to properly settle into the house with his wife and two daughters. You see, he would be on the run shortly after the construction was completed for
Marissa:relief because it's a beautiful house.
Matthew:Yeah. And he did partake and he did participate in the actual construction of it. It's not like he did it by himself or anything like that. There was other people involved but he designed to he's a hell of a woodworker. For sure. And there it's the house is currently still going through some like renovation or reconstruction. Right. Restoration that's got that's a better word. going in through some some restoration at the at this time. And we had stopped by just last July. You yesterday, whatever. This was on our way back. This is not from the wedding, but we were kind of we knew that this was coming up. So we wanted to go ahead and snap a few photos of it. And they actually had just recently opened it up to tours. They're only from what we just miss. Yeah, they were like, one 1pm to 4pm. On the weekend, Monday or the first weekend, first weekend of the month there Yeah, so some silly and but like it's only like two rooms and they're mostly empty. There's like a couch, two couches in one room. And then there's like a picnic table with some long sleeve shirts. And then they said that they opened up the upstairs for a reconstruction of of some of the courthouse that will later play a part in the story. But it was also cool too because they did it. The two people who were there doing the tour at this time, they were dressed in period, garb and one Have them looked like the man who's going to take up the larger share of the story Floyd Allen. Floyd Allen was born in 1856. He and his brothers were known to get into some trouble in their youth fights and minor crime scene commonplace when the when the Alan boys were around. Floyd was well liked by neighbors throughout Carroll County, Virginia. He owned a good bit of land and was one of the few people him and his and his brothers were some of the few people who actually had like proper alcohol licensing so they could produce alcohol. Later they get into some trouble or some moonshine run. I don't know exactly what the what the what the ins and outs of their licensing was. But that's here nor there. Floyd and his brothers were generous to those who did right by them, but their fuses burned pretty quick when they were lit. Floyd had multiple violent charges brought against him by the late 1880s, including multiple shootings, one of which was a cousin of his. He had also been sought for battering a police officer, his brothers, Sidna and Garland had been tried for assaulting a group of 13 men who the hell that gunpoint all the charges would be reduced to little more than a stern finger wagging by the Commonwealth's attorney. In the book, a courtroom massacre, politics and public sentiment in progressive era Virginia. Journal of southern history by Randall Hall would quote Judge Robert C. Jackson, saying Floyd Allen was perhaps the worst man of the clan, overbearing, vindictive, high tempered, brutal and no respect for law and little or no regard for human life. During my term of office, Floyd Allen, was several times charged with violations of law. In several instances he escaped indictment. I am satisfied because the witnesses were afraid to testify in the facts before the grand jury. Lucky for Judge Jackson, he wouldn't preside over the future cases involving the Allen clan. In that same text, Jackson would recount a dispute over land purchasing. As an example, Floyd was attempting to purchase a stretch of land at a reduced price. When another buyer no combs offered to buy the land for the asking price. Floyd told combs to back out of the deal. When combs proceeded with the purchase, well flood shot him and it's the land the houses on no Floyd is the Floyd is the elder brother of cydnus. Right? So Floyd shoots but Floyd owns a bunch of land in Carroll County. Floyd shoots combs and combs was wounded, though he didn't die from his injury. Luckily for for Floyd, but he was indicted and tried with assault. He was convicted and sentenced to paying $100 fine and deserve one hour in jail for the shooting.
Marissa:Well, all right. That's not much.
Matthew:Just like you could shoot somebody, it's 100 bucks, which I guess $100 At that time, would it be what six D was or 20? Was 600. So five times that? Be like six what? Shit? I'm too stupid to do math.
Marissa:I'm too tired to do math. So we'll just say it's a lot of money. It's
Matthew:a shit. What the fuck is six times?
Marissa:Six times what? I don't even know. See, this is why I can't do it.
Matthew:So $100 At that time, but basically after taking a an excruciating amount of time to do very simple math having to break out a calculator here. It'd be about $3,000 Give or take. All right. So anyway, so it's like a $3,000 fine and an hour an hour doesn't have inflation in it. So an hour it's a literal an hour in prison like what? What kind of sentencing is that? Well, Floyd answers this and says, I ain't spending one damn minute in jail.
Marissa:Come on, man. This is the best. This is the best solution you can hope for right?
Matthew:He immediately puts up a post bail just immediately just pays it pays to find post bail. Later when summoned back to court because he was he was posted bail until an appeal was made. So he was he was supposed to be out of out of out of court until the appeal. When the appeal time came Floyd shows up with an order from the governor to suspend his sentence.
Marissa:Are they buds or something? Yeah, they there's the
Matthew:Allen clan has quite a bit of Yeah, the Allen clan has a bunch of political ties there and there this is like a lot of places like this particularly in like Appalachia and stuff like families root in there and they stay there and you know, they just they In the family continues to branch and branch and branch and branch. So they dig in. So there's only a handful of families that are generally in most of these haulers and whatnot and around there. So there's so most most of them are all kids so they're all kind of connected in some way or another and I'm not saying that they're not they're not they're not blood related to the Governor or anything like that. But I know a guy who knows guy knows a guy and eventually gets to the point where you don't have to spend an hour in jail. Also, it's an hour in jail like the governor just be like, I don't give a shit. Like stop shoot people. That's an hour. Why was it whatever I don't care.
Marissa:time served. Yeah. So he, so Floyd,
Matthew:he, like I said, no stranger to violence, no stranger to runs in with with with the law. One one run in with a law was a gunfight with his brother Jack over his father's estate. Jack was the local constable. Oh, no. Yeah. The two exchanged volley of bullets, one striking Jack along the scalp and the other taken Floyd in the chest. When the bullets ran out. Floyd then took two beating his brother.
Marissa:He took a bullet hole in his chest.
Matthew:Yeah. And he just he just laid into it just got on him and just started wailing on him. So in like, I don't know, Jack took a bullet to the head and it just ricocheted across his scalp and hard headed. Yeah, hard headed. So Floyd, he gets arrested, and he's fined $100. And an hour in jail. To which Floyd says Not while there is a lick of blood in these veins am I spending one minute in jail? And he did not in fact serve one minute in jail for the assault. I assume that Jack muscle like let it go. So it's actually said that Floyd had 13 bullet wounds scars in his body five of which were inflicted back in some good ol Appalachian these guys are they they? I feel like yeah, like crazy. So to kind of touch back on on Sidna Allen, the brother at the top of the story. He was also tried for a handful of crimes, including an arrest in 1910 for producing counterfeit coins that were there. $20 gold coins. I keep in mind, that's a $623 in 2022. This math I did ahead of time, that's what screwed me up with the initial math. I think they were like,
Marissa:I wondered how you just automatically were like, Oh, $20 is $600. Now Yeah,
Matthew:I just don't I can do inflation. I just can't take that inflation and multiply it by five. So anyways, so he, he gets these. I think they're gold coins from when I could figure out the $20 coin in the US was a$20 coin.
Marissa:It's a lot of money to be carrying around as a coin at that time. It's worth
Matthew:it. Yeah. So but yeah, so I'm thinking he had like counterfeit gold or something that he was pressing into into these coins, but then they'd stopped being in circulation in like the 1930s. If it's the same thing I don't I was looking for something to put in there to like, if you said a $20 coin in us, what we don't have 20. So anyway, he certainly doesn't sit in it doesn't seem to have quite the level of golf that Floyd, his older brother did. But the Allen family tree, like I said, it's got branches, and those branches are still held firm by the roots of the same tree of Floyd Allen. So cousins of the Alan's were the Edwards and after a brawl at a local church, where Wesley Edwards was caught smooching, another another's best gal, while a fight broke out as things tend to do in such cases. This fight was joined by other members of the Edwards clan, including Wesley's brother, a man bearing a seemingly common family name, Sidna. This is Sedna Edwards. The fight got pretty intense, and the Edward boys were sought after by the law. So boys being boys and fearing to face the consequences of their actions. They ran for the North Carolina State Line, which is
Marissa:not far from fancy capitol. No, no, it's a hop skip and a jump.
Matthew:And there's actually a lot of the trouble that the Allen's had with some some some of Floyd's other shootings, they all happen in like Mount Airy, and in the Greensboro area, so yeah, so it seems like they, when they were when they were causing real mischief, they were off they went a little further south, you know, so because Virginia is a commonwealth and it seems like they had really strong state lines, like as far as like, we're jurisdictions and stuff like that. So you could go you could go raise house somewhere else and it wasn't gonna wasn't going to be such a big deal. So Oh, the Edwards boys, Wesley and Sedna. They they run for the border, and they get new jobs, like a quarry or something. And they plan to possibly make new lives or at least hold up until things cooled down back in Virginia. Before long, the Edwards boys were found out and then arrested at their work in North Carolina. And there was an exchange that was supposed to happen anyways. So they're they were brought back to the North Carolina and Virginia border, and they were handed off to Deputy Sheriff Thomas Samuels and his buggy driver, Peter Easter. The two AdWords brothers were tied into the back of the buggy sidan Edwards had previously been a high flight risk. So he was also handcuffed to the front seat by the only pair of handcuffs that the deputy apparently thought to take with them. So you got Wesley, I don't know if he's like how much he's tied. He may very well be just hogtied in the back of this buggy. And then there's, and then you got Sedna, who's also tied, but he's also handcuffed to behind the driver. And so the deputy and Easter they head back into Carroll County, with their prisoners. Now, this story serves a few purposes this little branching off here. One is to show that more than just Floyd and Sidney Allen had scrapes with the law. As the rest of the extended family seems to also have it. The Edwards had their issues. The Edwards brothers were also to be present at a later event. So we had to pull them in now to kind of show you why they do what they do. So now, as I mentioned, Floyd Allen, he owned a good bit of land in Carroll County, so much in fact that these prisoners had to be taken through Floyd's land. And wouldn't you know, Floyd was waiting on him. seems not much happens around Carroll County without old Floyd knowing about especially if it involves his family. These deputies they ride up along a spanner Floyd's property and Floyd takes his horse and rides up to greet them. And when he gets close enough to see Wesley tied up and Sidna cough to the to the to the seat, he tells the deputies release them to get rid of them bonds later claiming that when he said that to release them, he literally meant to untie them like not to like let them
Marissa:let me guess they let them go. Well, now
Matthew:the deputy deputy Samuels he pulls a gun and points it at Floyd Allen and that's not at all what was meant. And he tells him to go on. So Florida, he heads on a little bit and he gets to a part of the road next to sit Allen's he said own to store. So but in order to get past and this road it kind of narrows down so said he doesn't take particularly kindly to the refusal. So he rides up and then he uses his horse to block the road. So the deputy comes up to this, the only place that he can go with this with his buggy. This is a horse drawn carriage effectively, right? So that's what the buggy is. And the deputy he levels his gun at Floyd again. Floyd doesn't back down. He instead he just dismounts and whether he's believing that he's had 13 bullet wounds already and one more isn't going to do much more than cement his legendary constitution, or that he's just confident that the deputy isn't going to pull the trigger or that he's just a bad shot. This is all unclear, but he moves towards the vehicle and the deputy lowers his gun has long arm either because it may have misfired or because he already knew that the gun wasn't actually functional. This is partly unclear but he goes for a sidearm and Floyd seeing this realizes that the likelihood of being shot is greatly increasing. Sure. So he lunges towards Samuel disarm the the man, the deputy and then pistol whips the shit out of us. And he said he's beaten the hell out of out of the deputy Easter taking pulls a gun and he takes a few licks himself. He then decides he wants nothing to do with this encounter with Floyd. So he takes off and starts running away to try to call for help. Floyd unties his nephews and the three head back towards said Alan's house.
Marissa:You want Floyd on your side?
Matthew:Oh yeah, he's a bad yeah, I mean, he is he's a badass but he's also an idiot. Anyway, so he sometimes that goes hand in hand deputy sent Yeah, exactly. For sure. Like when you don't know when you don't know that he apparently has immortal his immortality is now Ever been disproven at this point so he's he's really writing that high so any seems to be a man of have a bit of means for the area if he's owns all this land yeah for sure and he can keep posting $3,000 bonds all the time so are paying the fines for shooting neighbors so they leave. Floyd leaves the deputy unconscious along the roadside and Floyd had actually taken a bullet across his hand during the fight probably trying to like pull that wrestle the gun away. This is also presumably from Easter firing at him as Easter tried to run away after cleaning the wound. He brings the to the to Edwards boys this is Floyd he brings it to Edwards boys back to the courthouse explaining he doesn't think they should be set free. He just doesn't think that they should be hogtied. He's made he was like I wasn't trying to get them to like let them go. I just don't like seeing people be manhandled like that. Meanwhile, he's he's just freed the deputies horses or Peter, Peter Easter's horses to go run, run run run rampant, just free. And then he beat the piss out of out of a police officer and left him in a ditch and he's like I just said on time.
Marissa:That's pure anarchy. So we couldn't we couldn't settle this a lot easier.
Matthew:Y'all just gotta come on now.
Marissa:Got it twisted.
Matthew:Yeah, looking at the Cross waves. So apparently months go by and a political adversary to the Allen family. William Foster. He begins pushing for a further investigation into the into this assault of the Deputy Sheriff Samuel Samuels. Sorry. So Foster has been pushing against the Allen's for a few years as he had had political trouble with Jack Allen son, Walter Walter had effectively knocked foster from the Democratic ticket and then foster switches parties and goes on the on the Republican ticket. As far as that kind of stuff goes, it's not really super, super important to this. But you have to understand that Foster has a bit of a hatred for the Allens and this is this is Jack Allen. This is the guy who took a bullet across the scalp his son is he's so Jack is a constable his son was running for public office on the Democratic ticket, etc. Gotcha. So like, like we were saying like there's a lot of they have a lot of political poll in this area. That's why they kind of just get a finger wagon slap on the wrist and sent away. So as momentum begins to build behind this call for a trial, Samuels decides it would probably be best if he just left the state. So this effectively causes the prosecution to lose one of their two key witnesses. Floyd Allen agrees to take the stand admitting that he may have roughed up the Deputy Sheriff a bit but it was on the account of the mistreatment of Wesley and sit and Edwards. By this time, Floyd Allen has himself been deputized by Judge Massey
Marissa:really? Wow, nice.
Matthew:So he is now working with his with Jack, to whom he owed at least one of his five family scars. So yeah, so this is this is this is wild, wild times in Virginia. So during the lead up to the trial accusations that Floyd and Jack Allen had been threatening and intimidating witnesses begin to come around and they're trying to basically everyone's saying that no one's coming forward as witnesses to this because everybody, every time that there is somebody dalens will go over there and and, you know, intimidate them or do whatever they can to keep them from testifying. Of course, they deny this. You know, you know, Floyd, he's on the up and up this guy. On March 13 1912, Floyd Allen has finally tried for the assault, and the aiding in the escape of the Edwards brothers and obstruction of justice or whatever other stuff they probably tried to throw in there. What happened in the courtroom during the trials differs depending on who tells it. Even eyewitness claims seem to as to how like the proceedings kind of play out are very different. So what follows is as best of the stories I can cobble together the courtroom is packed with spectators and supporters of both parties. Sidna and Claude Alain Claude is the son of Floyd. They stand on benches in the northeastern corner of the courtroom. This giving them a better view over the trial as well as being above the crowd so they can kind of see to the front holding a similar vantage point along the northern wall where the were the Edwards brothers, Wesley and Sedna At the back of the courtroom was a man named frail Allen F r i e, l. I say that real I don't know frill, frail, whatever. So that's another Allen one of the cousins is up against the back of it. So you kind of think like a long two of the walls. If you have if it's like a square room Yes. against two of the walls are all Alan's Edwards, the judge judge Massey, who was the one who deputized. Floyd is presiding over it. Okay. And Sheriff Webb is the the Sheriff of the town at this point. And or the county sheriff's are over counties. So judge Massey is the guy who brought who deputy deputized Floyd Allen and Sheriff Webb is the guy who brought in Floyd Allen for for this. Foster is also there. And he's the guy who was pushing for this this whole time. Both Massey and judge Massey and Sheriff Webb had confided in others that they were concerned that the Allens would cause trouble if the jury didn't bring back a verdict that they wanted. I feel like that's, that's a that's a good that's a good fear to have.
Marissa:Yeah, definitely.
Matthew:Yeah. These guys are wildcards. So this feeling was shared by other officials as well. Yeah. And because of this many chemed armed the Allen's guess what they also came armed? Because in 1912, I guess carrying guns in courtrooms seems logical, like, like open carrying, like, oh, yeah, that just whatever. Okay. It's funny to think that some people are still like, in the belief that having a gun is a form of like everyday protection, like, to the point where you should just like, bring it to the courtroom. Like, there's still people who blame who like, think like you should always be packing and just I don't know, it's weird. I don't know. I just I. I'm not going to get on the soapbox about gun control. But it's just weird. It's just weird. Like, if everybody has a gun, a lot of people get shot. That's what that's what I think. If you just assume that if somebody has a gun, they're probably not supposed to have a gun. I feel like you just make a safer society.
Marissa:Well, let's see what happens here. Well,
Matthew:the jury enters the room. Spectators and officials shifting in their seats wait for the verdict. The jury presents guilty. And they sentence Floyd Allen to one year in jail. Oh no. eyes begin to shift around the courtroom to gauge reactions before coming to Floyd Allen,
Marissa:way worse than one day or one hour. Well, he
Matthew:had said that he would never spend one minute in prison. As long as there was blood in his veins. I like to think that Floyd kind of like rubs his palms on the armrest of the chair, the room silent awaiting his reaction. Judge Massey straightens in his chair making eye contact with Floyd who he himself had deputized and opens his mouth to speak and Floyd growls out before the judge can pass the sentence and this is a quote. If you sentence me I will kill you. Oh. Massey takes his measure and says Mr. Allen, sentenced up to one year in prison. Floyd rocks in his chair, straightening his tie. His eyes are cast downward For the briefest contemplative moment before he stands, walks a few feet and says, tell you I ain't going at which time he catches the eye of of the sheriff who holding one hand behind his back throws Floyd a taunting wink. What happens next is kind of like a grito Hohen moment.
Marissa:Everybody has a gun. Don't be taunting people, and he just
Matthew:gave him a wink. So we don't know. We don't know exactly what happens. But like I said, it's kind of like a grito Han who shot first moment but the courtroom erupts in gunfire. Floyd is shot by the clerk of court and he drops to the ground on top of his own defense lawyer who says Get off me they're gonna kill me trying to get to you. So he struggles to crawl away fearing that he's going to be killed by somebody shooting at Floyd. Floyd scrambles towards the exit before being held up by that's being like held by Sedna. The rest of the clan make their escape as well firing as they do. A total of more than 50 rounds were fired. damn true to his word. Judge Massey lay dead along with Sheriff Webb and the jury foreman Augustus Fowler.
Marissa:Thank the islands kind of think the Allen's kind of got the upper hand.
Matthew:Yeah, and others were injured in the exchange but don't miss the list of people who died. Like I don't people argue over who shot first but the only people who died were the sheriff who brought Floyd Allen in In the jury who read the verdict, the judge who passed the sentence and a 19 year old woman who was who was to stand as witness for on the side of the prosecution,
Marissa:that's what I mean. They got the upper hand for sure. Yeah.
Matthew:Four people died. Yeah. All of which were the people that will should have been targeted by
Marissa:last name Alan. Yeah.
Matthew:Floyd was the only Allen who was actually injured in this. The woman who was shot who was the witness, she was shot in the back while fleeing the courtroom. kind of seems like they planned their targets in this one, right. So this was definitely like a spur of the moment. Vengeance is at hand kind of thing. So the wound that Floyd had sustained during the firefight had shattered his hip, making it impossible for him to flee too far. So he ends up going to the hotel aided by his son until authorities find them. He attempts to slit his own throat with his pocket knife. His own throat. Yeah, but they're able to wrestle it away from him before he can do pocket knife. Yeah, it's all he had. He had a he had a shattered hip and a pocket knife. No,
Marissa:I'm just I'm just thinking about the the his mental state trying to do that with a pocket knife. Not gonna spend one god damn man. I mean, I get it. But man, that's hard to. Yeah, I would imagine that'd be very difficult to actually do.
Matthew:I'm sure he keeps keeps his knife sharp. Still, it's not it's not a very long knife. So at this time, in 1912, in the Commonwealth of Virginia, if the sheriff died, all of his deputies lose their recognized power. Oh, so he's no longer a deputy. Yeah, but there's no deputies in the county. So when Sheriff Webb draws his last breath, Carroll County lost its police force. Yikes. At this time when a police force, yeah, right. At this time when a police force can't handle the situation. And in 1912, Virginia, who you're going to call the Baldwin felts to tell God That's right. Coming in hot on the trail, the Allen gang guys the Baldwin felts detective agency, and they were able to apprehend the fleeing family within about a month all of them that were there, sitting down and we claim until the day that he died that Wesley Edwards his fiancee had actually taken a bribe from from the Baldwin shells of $500 to rat them out. And there's most of that most of the theories around how they were actually all rounded up, all kinds of linked back to her or her father, who didn't like Wesley. So, but anyways, they get found out, they get they get nabbed and each of the family members would be tried at the courthouse. And of course, if you if you guys don't remember, the Baldwin felts from the coal Wars episode, they they ran roughshod over Yeah. For people all the time. They were they were they were a group of bad dudes. So, I mean, what the reputation they had in 1912. If you see the Baldwin felts showing up, you're probably just gonna be like, we're good. Okay, let's see, reputation precedes Yeah, we are. We're good. So I guess we got caught. Ha, yeah. So So Sidna Allen, said that he was not responsible for any of the deaths. He said he had only fired at at the clerk of the deputy clerk and the deputy sheriff, who were there. So he he said he that he couldn't be tried for murder because he unloaded hit all five of his rounds at the guy who shot Floyd and another deputy sheriff. So he would be found guilty of various crimes associated with the Hillsville courthouse shootout, a shootout, and he was sentenced to 35 years in prison. During which time, his house was confiscated. The sit down and house, his wife and daughters were being forced off of the property and were forced into a rental at the rental property. While in prison, Sidney Allen was granted special privileges and workshop hours where he was able to like pick up tiny scraps of wood and and off cuts to make some remarkable pieces of beautiful furniture that actually
Marissa:still exist. Or can you see them? You
Matthew:can see it at the courthouse a Hillsville Oh, really? Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's I think they have a museum there now that actually has, so you can see it online too. I'll link some pictures. But it's really cool because it's made from just little pieces of wood that he's that he had to just cut like they weren't giving them like they asked pieces you know, but it's really nice it's really cool. That's pretty cool. So said
Marissa:he was good with woodworking. Yeah,
Matthew:and that was really what I mean cuz that's when I found his furniture stuff. I was like, Oh, wow, he's like, he's real good. Victor and Barnet Allen were present at the courthouse massacre. But they did not actually participate. They were actually outside and claimed that they never entered the building so they don't they were caught and rounded up with with by the by the by the agency but they get released. The Edwards branch of the family was found guilty of second degree murder, and each of them received 18 years in prison. Well, Jack Allen, who wasn't president at this time, he would end up losing his job as a constable and eventually his life because of this Hillsville courthouse massacre. He was removed from his position as constable and then later he was got into a heated confrontation over the events that took place in the courtroom. Just you know, just somebody talking shit, you know, not like it wasn't like, it was just somebody talking shit trying to get his goat. And apparently it worked. gunfight. Jack dies. Floyd and his son Claude, were both found guilty and sentenced to death. Floyd openly wept during the sentencing. Floyd would meet his fate on March 28 1913, in Richmond, Virginia. His son Claude, would follow 11 minutes later both by electric chair
Marissa:I was gonna ask
Matthew:and that kind of concludes the story of Floyd Allen and what would become the Allen gang another courthouse shooting in Appalachia, which also the courthouse shooting that was part of the of the of the Cold War's also featured a said Well, yeah, but yeah, I'm just saying it's, it's, it's a courthouse shooting, featuring a CID the Baldwin felts detective agency and happens within 100 100 miles of each other. And only a few years like that's just it's just weird. So I'll times it yes, it's crazy. So if you're interested in the Sydney Allen house, they like I said they had recently begun opening up tours it's free.
Marissa:Yeah, it is. There's a Facebook page it's got more details about like when they offer these tours and stuff
Matthew:like that to and they sell the T shirts for like 20 bucks for a long sleeve t shirt we didn't get to see what they were we could see them sitting on the table and guess this is probably to raise funds to complete the restoration of the houses interior because like I said, there's just like a couple of rooms that are pretty much empty and then there's another room that was just full of debris like it looked like all the wood that they had been pulling up but in its time you can really tell that that was a spectacularly nice and there's a lot of really cool little details around like the the gables and stuff like that.
Marissa:wraparound porch.
Matthew:Yep. So and it also has like a little what the lady said while we were there because like I said, there was a couple of like reenactment people that were there. One look just like Floyd Allen from the pictures. He had the big ass mustache and he Yeah, but anyways, but they had said that they have like the upstairs is now open as well. And it has like something, something to do with the courthouse up there. So that's that's kind of cool. Anyway, so check it out. And now let's see what Marissa has for this week's McCobb minute.
Marissa:decapitation, or death by beheading has often been used as a form of punishment for millennia, often by sword but later refined with the key a team. And today the only country that still actively practices beheading as a form of capital punishment is Saudi Arabia. In France, it was seen as a more humane form of punishment as it's quick and thought to be painless. And that's why they did the key a team because it was just a more effective way of killing somebody that they thought would be just quicker, less painful, you know, but there have been instances, even research done to find out just how quick it actually is and how long it actually takes to lose consciousness. There have been tales throughout at least the past few centuries, about severed heads, changing their facial expression after death, seemingly confused in pain or even grieving from what just happened to them. Henry the Eighth second wife and Anberlin was decapitated in 1536 and her head was held up right afterward. Onlookers claimed they saw that the Queen's lips were moving for a while trying to say something. A couple of centuries later, a woman named Charlotte cor de, she'd assassinated a revolutionary leader and she was sentenced to be executed. And so she was condemned to die via guillotine. And after the blade drops, the executioner held her hand up and slapped each cheek to show disrespect toward her and supposedly Her cheeks flushed and she looked enraged at the insult. I don't believe I don't buy the flushing at all. But
Matthew:yeah, because that's a blood thing. Yeah.
Marissa:But she she had this look on her face that she was insulted.
Matthew:Yeah, I think wasn't the wasn't the, the inventor of the guillotine? Wasn't he also guillotined?
Marissa:I don't know.
Matthew:Thank you was and there was another guy I met it might have been him. But there was somebody who went and he said that he would blink repeatedly.
Marissa:I have that. Yeah.
Matthew:That you're done, sir.
Marissa:Nope. In 1905, a French physician attended an execution and stood close by the guillotine, where he grabbed a man's head immediately after an execution. He called the man's name twice. And he claimed that the heads eyelids lifted each time and met his gaze. The third time it did not prompting the man to record that the head had probably remained conscious from somewhere between 25 to 30 seconds after decapitation. But yes, he called his name and the head blinked and looked up at him twice.
Matthew:Yeah, it seems you unless your body goes into shock. I mean, I don't see why. It wouldn't. You know what I mean? Like, like, I feel like you would have a few seconds of conscious you've got to like, why would you not? Yeah,
Marissa:I mean, until the the blood supply completely drains out, then or the oxygen you know, it goes away, then. You've got that still? Yeah,
Matthew:I mean, it's the same thing. Like I mean, it's I think you would probably remain conscious as long as you as if you were being strangled. You know, if someone was just throttling you to death, you have a few you have a little bit, you know, like I'm talking like, real hard throttling, not like, like you're working to do it, but just like instantly trying to cut this the blood circulation off to the head, it still takes a few seconds. Yeah.
Marissa:And 1989, an Army veteran reported after a car accident, that his friend who had been decapitated his face, or his head had landed in his lap, and he could see his face and he said, he watched the expression on his friend's head changed from shock and confusion to terror and grief. A couple of studies on rats were able to record electrical activity in their brains for about four seconds after decapitation in one study. And other one actually showed activity in the brain for 10 to 15 seconds. So the brain
Matthew:that's such a fucked up thing.
Marissa:I know, like
Matthew:capitate the cavitate animals and see how long the brain
Marissa:fuck dude, they've done it. Yeah, I'm sure
Matthew:they do all kinds of shit to
Marissa:completely agree with you. But it seems, let me think about it. The brain feels no trauma when it happens. So the brain is fine, at least for you know, a few seconds. And then it just takes a few seconds for the consciousness to catch up to what happened to the body. And it's really scary. If you think about it. Oh, yeah, for sure. You know, can you imagine? I mean, I can't imagine but like if if your head were to get cut off, like right now, you wouldn't know what was going on at first, but then you'd realize something was wrong. And then you'd be able to see maybe your body even and you'd be like, Oh my god. So you'd be aware of what was happening until he finally did die?
Matthew:Yeah, you would just suddenly just see it hit the ground. You would you would, you know, you would see yourself hit the ground. It'd be crazy. Yeah, I I understand why they don't do like a block instead of a blade, because the Gallagher effect and it just fucking melon splashes you, the audience with that, but you think maybe.
Marissa:Well, there's a lot of changes that go on wrong, too. Yeah, but
Matthew:you think like instead of having like, instead of having a blade, you have like a big ass heavy wedge that goes that drops on the actual skull to crush the skull rather than decapitation? Because I really I don't, I don't see how you could unless again, unless it's shock, your body actually goes into instantaneous shock. I don't see how I don't see how you would not be aware for at least a few seconds, which those seconds would be so long, longest. Oh my god. Anyways.
Marissa:Yeah, I mean, it's not practiced anywhere except Saudi Arabia now. So
Matthew:what science where it is? Come on, we should be able to get some studies done on that. Yeah. on humans. Leave the mice alone.
Marissa:I don't think they're going to be doing that on humans. Oh, well.
Matthew:I know. Well, that's what you know. That's why, if you check out the Psychopath Test on our Patreon, I come out as the most psychotic because I'm like, Nah, leave the animals alone. Condemned criminals, you know, science.
Marissa:So you're saying to just drop a heavy boulder on their head? Well, yeah,
Matthew:ordain what Yeah, well, I think that's more humane. I don't see how blunt force this the same argument of what we had with the back end of the axe, it stuns you
Marissa:I get what you're Are Saying I just I can see, first of all the the amount of effort they'd have to put into, you know, having something super heavy high up and then drop in the exact right spot. Lots of ways I can go wrong if it hits it just slightly off, then you
Matthew:just make it so you don't have to worry about not getting multiple blows, like industrial hammer kind of show, but like we're talking today,
Marissa:we could do it but back in the day.
Matthew:I'm talking now I'm talking now. Like,
Marissa:we just use chemicals. Sometimes Yeah,
Matthew:yeah. Mostly. I'm not necessarily getting into an argument of for against the death but no, I'm just saying I'm for the death penalty. Okay, but I am but I'm not because honestly, I think that in a lot of cases being being forced to live with that there are fates worse than death, for sure. For sure. But anyways, I digress.
Marissa:Being forced to see your body as you slowly lose consciousness. That's pretty bad.
Matthew:That's very bad. But yeah, anyways, I just I think that I think that blunt force trauma is is more humane than than not. Anyways, thank you for listening. Special thanks to our patrons for helping us keep this endeavor going. If you would like to help support the show, you can head over to Patreon and join up it is only $5. We have a couple of short stories journal entries formulae for figuring out the impact velocity of a vehicle hitting a person or other fleshy object. Also a couple of extra episodes, including the Psychopath Test that we took. And speaking of support, we would like to direct you to a link in the show notes where you can donate to the Make a Wish charity. Alexis is a friend of ours who is taking up a challenge to raise money for the Make a Wish Foundation. And it's an organization that helps children battling with cancer to partake in some kind of like trip, adventure or memorable experience while they undergo cancer treatments. This year, Alexis is taking on a 28 mile mountain hike through the northern part of South Carolina to raise money and awareness for the charity. It is not an easy hike. but it pales in comparison to what these people who are going to these these cancer treatments in their family go through. So if you can toss a few duckets that way, that would be appreciated. Her hike is October 1 2022. If you're listening to this after that day, and you still want to donate, you still can, you don't have to wait until the next height event or anything like that. You can donate at any time. They even have options to donate funds that help out just like local, local children as well. Anyways, thank you for listening, that link will be in the show notes. If you want to reach out to us or see our pictures that we took at the Sydney Allen house, you can follow us on Twitter and Facebook at Macabrepedia.
Marissa:We're also on Instagram at Macabrepediapod. And you can reach us on email for at macabrepediapod@gmail.com. And please if you haven't already done so leave us a review. If you're listening on Apple's Apple podcast or Spotify or wherever you have the option of leaving a review,
Matthew:review, comment, share by word of mouth whatever you can. It really helps us out and they can tell your friends about my opinions on the death penalty.
Marissa:Oh yeah, definitely do that.
Matthew:That's the selling point. Thank you as always and join us next week as we add another entry into this our Macabrepedia